Question about Art and Acadme

I've noticed Art and Acadme being mentioned several times in the past, and I've read hints of it's contents. But that's some time ago. Do we have any more specific information on said contents? What kind of new backgrounds and rules will be in it?

In Societas, in the part about Mythic Herbalism, it reads that Art and Acadme will include rules for plants and their qualities. Now, this is something I'd like to see, especially rules for specific plants, how to grow them etc.

To me, this book sounds less focused that the previous releases. Any more info would be great. :slight_smile: And is this the next book out after Normandy, or is RoP: Magic out first?


It is, to my understanding, the next book on the schedule after Normandy. Not a whole lot has been reveled about it but there was this quote from David to one of my comments on the Societas thread:

I see. Maybe we can get some nice hints on specific contents? That would be great. Pretty pleeeaaase :smiley:

Anyway, I really hope the Herbalism-part of the book won't go the way the rpg Midnight. Midnight is a d20 setting from Fantasy Flight Games. In it's first edition (3.0) it had very nice rules for herbalism, with specific plants, descriptions, what they're used for etc. In the second edition of the setting, they just abstracted the whole thing.
I really want the characters to go out hunting aloe, mandrake, and if they really need cacti, they might have to travel a bit. :smiley:


Atlas' d20 book Occult Lore contained an extensive treatment of herbalism that included a large assortment of imaginative plants. Perhaps Atlas will draw on this work. Personally, I prefer a somewhat abstract system - too much detail is too much. But then again, Art & Academe will probably be the second 5e book I won't buy anyway... not really my interest.


P.S. Midnight seems very nice. I intend to play it, sometime...

And what was the first book you did not buy?

ps2: Curiously enough it's the second time I hear about it today, and it does seem interesting. It sure is a sign I should buy it!

I'll second his comment on "not really my interest", and if he's like me it would be City and Guild

I would buy any Ars Magica book for the 5th edition. If Atlas would release a book called "Water & Basin: Medieval Hygine", I would first ask why they wanted to produce this title, then I would buy it. :laughing:

Art & Acadme sounds great, but I honestly thing they should focus on RoP: Magic and RoP: Faerie first. And after that, something about nobility and combat.


In my opinion, after RoP: Magic they should do hedge magic and ... and... that other book that I so desperately want to see AARRRGHH!! stupid NDA!!

So it really is Water and Basin: Medieval Hygine after RoP: Magic?? Oh well.. :unamused:



O_o Would you be my long lost twin brother? :laughing:

There really isn't a "focus" on a single book. I can't say how many books are in various stages of production, but this is the usual process, more or less.

  1. David makes a call for submissions and outlines what he sees as the various sections of a book.
  2. Authors have a couple of months to write up their pitches for the sections they want to write or propose new ones.
  3. David announces who will write what.
  4. First drafts are due three or four months later.
  5. The drafts go to playtest for a couple of months.
  6. Comments come back and authors revise, edit or re-write their sections. This can take two months to six months depending on the comments.
  7. Play test again, which is another two months.
  8. Based on the comments, David decides whether the book is ready to go to final edit or if it needs another playtest. If the comments are minor, the authors have a month or two to revise and edit.
  9. If there are major problems or the book has a lot of mechanical parts and needs a third playtest, you can add a few more months to the process.
  10. David does his final edits after authors make their revisions based on the playtest comments.
  11. It goes to Atlas for final editing, proofreading, art and layout.

Just to give you an idea of how long it took to write a book that went fairly smoothly, the initial call for Ancient Magic went out in June/July of 2005, if I recall correctly.

Anyway, at each step of the process there are multiple projects in the works. All authors and playtesters aren't working on Art & Academe to the exclusion of other books. Some books have problems in playtest and get delayed. Some have problems because real life interrupts an author's ability to write a section. Some books have sections that need to be completely re-written, not just revised. Issues can arise at Atlas (GenCon Book or Mr. Nephew's election campaign). All of these things can delay a book going to press, which is why Atlas doesn't announce books until they are in the final, final stages of production.

There is no "focus" on a single book. Authors do what they can for what is essentially a hobby/part-time job. If rpgs had the revenue of Hollywood, then there could be a "focus" on a book. Believe me, if Atlas paid what Hollywood does, I'd happily quit my day job and "focus" on whatever David asked.

In the end you're free to complain about the order of books, but believe me when I say David's plan for the order of books made sense to me, but no plan survives contact with the enemy.

Incidentally, if you've read the intro to Sub Rosa, you'll see that David has announced RoP: Magic is due out after Art & Academe. So March/April of 2008 sounds about right for its release.

Yes, I know how the production process works. I've playtestet quite a bit of books for other rpgs (including the original d20 rules.. oh my.. :stuck_out_tongue: ).

I'm thrilled any time a new Ars Magica book comes out for 5th edition. I know before I open it's covers that it will be a good read and useful in my campaign.
Are there rules I would like to see more detailed in the 5th edition? Yes, of course. But I also like the fact that Atlas doesn't churn out books in a rate like some other companies I could mention (hint: I've playtested for one of them). Quality before quantity seems to be the rule in Ars Magica. :slight_smile:

And it's Christmas 4-5 times (including the real one) a year for us Ars Magica players :slight_smile:



I don't know Art and Academe, so I can't definitively say it is is more focused or not. Indeed, if I could, I wouldn't be allowed to because I'd have an NDA. I think, though, that it having just two authors may give it a certain closeness of focus that you don't get on books with an ensemble of authors.

Yes, I read the product description for Art and Acadme when it came up on the website, and I see the focus of it now. I'm pretty excited about this one. I like to add more mundane affairs into my campaign. :slight_smile: