Ranulf from MoH now 150 years post apprentice!!!!

[The_Fixer]

@Erik Tyrrell

A caster who spends a few days practicing with the School of the Founder's Advocate can learn to cast their spells sufficiently slowly to allow unraveling the fabric of ignem to take effect before their attack spell. When the caster does this, their initiative is reduced by two for the rest of the combat.

This seems fine to me, the reverse of fast casting. Hell, you could even have a mental trigger such as "dispell", wait 2 second, and cast your pilum.

@DIREWOLF75

Thats what makes it so dastardly hard to place indeed. The only thing im sure of is that Base 2 is too low and that Base 3 is almost certainly too low. At Base 4 i can at least start justifying it even if it still feels potentially low.

Agreed.

Maybe start at base 4 for a small penalty to soak, with added magnitudes making the target more flamable? (And the question becomes: How much more can you get flamable?)
Like base 4 (final lvl 20) being -5 to soak, and an added magnitude (lvl 25) making it -10?
Argh, same idea as richard love, different magnitude.
Thing is, I can very well see the basic flambeau having a voice range, diameter duration version of this spell at only lvl 20, giving -10 to soak to people. With base 2, it gets to lvl 10. Too easy IMO

[Erik_Tyrrell]

Here's a rewrite then, It's the game balance arguments that I found to be most convincing

Skin of Wax
MuCo Level 20
R: Voice, D: Diam, T: Ind (+1 size )
The target of this spell becomes very flammable. For the duration of Skin of Wax any soak totals the target generate against damage from heat receive a -10 modifier.
(Base 4, +2 voice +1 Diameter, +1 magnitude increased soak penalty)

This, tangentially brings up two questions about vim.

If Ranulf wants to throw a wizard's expansion on skin of wax and give it a +1 size modifier he certainly has the Muto vim required to cast one spontaneously. But, could he do so in the same round as he casts skin of wax? If it were a formulaic spell he could do it with a concentration roll and the text in the box on page 159 doesn't restrict itself to formulaic spells. The text about timing on page 174 seems to indicate that you can't (depending upon how one parses the famously ambiguous phrase "one normal spell or a fast cast spell and a normal spell ") but this would preclude the formulaic muto vim spells as well.

Also, if Ranulf or anyone wizard's boosts a spell does the wizard's boost have to penetrate? Wizard's boost is duration momentary so one could argue that it only affects the casting and then it's done. On the other hand one could also argue that t causes a continuing change to the targeted spell so it should be resisted.

[Erik_Tyrrell]

Ranulf +75 years

Characteristics: Int +2, Per –2, Pre +1, Com +0, Str +1, Sta +2, Dex +1, Qik +1

Size: 0

Age: 99 (46)

Decrepitude: 0

Warping Score: 6 (20)

Confidence Score: 2 (6)

Virtues and Flaws: The Gift ; Major Magical Focus (Unnatural Fires); Affinity (Ignem), Mastered spells, Method Caster, Puissant Ignem*, Puissant Magic Theory, Puissant Penetration, True Friend (Artisano); Deficient Technique (intellego); Deleterious Circumstances (spells of range sight or range eye), Poor Eyesight, Miles (Houses of Hermes: Societates p 31),
*House Virtue

Personality Traits: Loyal (Artisano) +3, Inquisitive +2, Brave +2, Loquacious –1

Reputations: Hoplite +2 (Order), Deficient in Intellego (Flambeau) +1

Combat:
Fist: Init +1, Attack +4, Defense +4, Damage +1
Dodge: Init +1, Attack n/a, Defense +5, Damage n/a
Soak: +2
Fatigue Levels: OK, 0, –1, –3, –5, Unconscious
Wound Penalties: –1 (1-5), –3 (6-10), –5 (11-15), Incapacitated (16-20), Dead (21+)

Abilities: Artes Liberales 2 (Ceremonial Casting), Athletics 2 (running), Awareness 1 (searching), Brawl 3 (dodge), Carouse 1 (staying sober), Guile 1 (lying to strangers), Code of Hermes 2 (Wizard’s marches), Concentration 5 (spells), Dead Language – Latin 5 (hermetic usage), Finesse 3 (ignem), Leadership 2 (grogs), Living Language (Castillian) 5, Magic Lore (giants) 0 (1), Magic Theory 8 +2 (inventing spells), Organization Lore – Order of Hermes 1 (personalities), Parma Magica 6 (corpus), Penetration 5 +2 (5) (ignem), Philosophae 2 (ritual magic), Profession – Candle Maker 2 (speed), Stealth 2 (hide), Teaching 2 (apprentices)

Arts: Cr 14, In 10, Mu 13, Pe 10, Re 13; An 5, Aq 5, Au 5, Co 13, He 10, Ig 28+3 (3), Im 5, Me 5, Te 8, Vi 20

Twilight Scars: Fires in the near vicinity of Ranulf move directly away from him as if a slight breeze were coming from him. Smoke is not affected by this. In a cold environment Ranulf's breath turns to wood smoke rather than mist.

Equipment: Chest of the Ember Seed, Ribbon of Arcane Preservation, School of the Founder's Advocate, Talisman of Ranulf

Encumbrance: 0 (0)

Skin of Wax (MuCo 20/+28)
Assumption of the Fiery Mantle (MuCo(Ig) 35/+47 F A)
Coat of Prometheus (CrIg 5/+47)
Flash of the Scarlet Flames (CrIg 15/+47)
Mien of Helios (CrIg 15/+47)
Fasting Hearth (CrIg 20/+67 F A)
Pillum of Fire (CrIg 20/+71 F M A) Mastery 4 (Fast Casting, Defense, Multi Casting, Penetration)
Self Immolation (CrIg 30/+67 F A)
Stockade of Infernos (CrIg 40/+67 FA)
Conflagrative Servant (Cr (Mu,Re) Ig 40/+65 F A)
Tales of the Ashes (InIg 5/+25 D A)
Enduring Flame (MuIg 10/+65 F A)
Boreal Flames (Mu(Pe)Ig 15/+58 F A)
Flames of Stone (MuIg 30/+65 F A)
Petite Phoenix (Mu(Re) Ig 30/+65 F A)
Discriminating Flames (Re Ig 25/+65 F A)
Ward against Heat and flames (ReIg 25/+52 A)
Parade Ground of Conflagrations (ReIg 30/+65F A)
Ward Against Immolation (ReIg 35/+52 A)
Unified Flame (ReIg 35/+65 F A)
Flames that Leap Leagues (ReIg 40/+65F A)
Transformation of Fire (MuTe(IgHe) 40/+37 F A)
Transformation of Fiery Steel (MuTe(IgHe) 40/+37 F A)
Scales of the Magical Weight (InVi 5/+17 D A)
Sense the Nature of Vis (InVi 5/+17 D A)
Wizard’s Expansion Ignem (MuVi 25/+35)
Group Wizard’s Boost Ignem (MuVi 30/+35)
Wizard’s Boost Ignem (MuVi 30/+35)
Wizard’s Communion (MuVi 30/+35)
Wizard’s Reach Ignem (MuVi 30/+35)
Wizard’s Boost (Vim) (MuVi 35/+35)
Unraveling the Fabric of Terram (PeVi 40/+36 A)
Wind of Mundane Silence (PeVi 40/+36 A)
The Patient Spell (ReVi 20/+35)
Maintain the Demanding Spell (ReVi 30/+35)
Opening the Intangible Tunnel (ReVi 40/+35)
F includes Magical Focus
M includes Spell Mastery
D includes deficient technique
A includes attunement of talisman
note that casting totals do not include the +3 bonus from method caster

Vis: eight pawns vim transferred into a ring warn on right hand, eight pawns ignem as ashes carried in a pouch on belt, the ashes become hot to the touch at sunset every day, four pawns muto as snakeskins.I realized when later books came out that the vis entry was about how much vis you could pull out of the corpse of a magical/faerie/etc creature, it wasn't about how much vis a character carried around with them. Whoops.

Appearance: Ranulf’s eyes are held in a near perpetual squint as he closely examines the world with his inadequate sight. Ranulf’s face is reddened and the short hair around his face is bleached from long exposure to hot fires at close range. Ranulf is of ordinary stature and build , he prefers to wear several layers of wool and leather clothing to insulate himself from the often extreme temperatures of his environment. Ranulf is almost never separated from his Talisman − a walking stick sized staff quite unsuitable for use as a weapon.

[Erik_Tyrrell]

One thing that I notice now about the quick advancement system. If you don't assign exposure xp for seasons in the laboratory (and we didn't for magi of Hermes) it becomes harder to justify advancement in magic theory past six or seven. To raise Ranulf's magic theory at present would require a year and a half, taking small bites out of this with exposure experience makes it much more palatable than having to devote 45 xp at once. Certainly the fast advancement gives different results from normal play in several ways, this is one of them that isn't obvious.

[Xavi]

From the description I take that his clothes would count as some kind of light/medium armour. It is not reflected in his stats, though.

Xavi

[Ravenscroft]

I have to say the whole "Grant a Minor Ability equals -10 Soak" seems thematically wrong.

Perdo cause wounds at Level: 05/10/15/20/30
Creo heals wounds at Level: 15/20/25/30/35
Muto gives a Soak bonus at Level: 05/10/15/20/25
MuAn Level 04 allows a +03 Soak bonus (Doublet of Impenetrable Silk , page 118)

RAW does not give negative Soak , so far as i can see , atm.
Spells cause damage that is soaked , causes wounds that are not soaked or gives a bonus to Soak.
Size can be reduced so a target is more easily damaged.

Even taking the option that it is easier to damage than heal and reduce the Muto soak bonus guidelines by 2 magnitudes ,
-03 soak at level 05 , -04 soak at level 10 and -05 soak at level 15 using Muto Corpus.

[Erik_Tyrrell]

@Xavi

From the description I take that his clothes would count as some kind of light/medium armour. It is not reflected in his stats, though.

Xavi

I didn't want to give him clothes heavy enough to gain a load so I don't think that a soak bonus is appropriate.

[DIREWOLF75]

Major Magical Focus (Unnatural Fires)

I would say "Fire" is narrow enough. Ignem covers fire, heat and light even without looking closely at it(ie like cold, darkness etc) so a Major Focus should be enough to cover 1/3 of an Art.

Or you could extend it to "Unnatural occurences of Ignem" instead... This would allow a broader range of effects to work with while retaining the quite nicely thematic "unnatural" limitation.

"Unnatural Fires" i would call a Minor Focus. Especially as long as you keep the "s" at the end, as "Fires" and "Fire" is a good bit different in limits imposed.
If someone throws a PoF at you, its unnatural but its not "A fire" so Ranulf as written currently wouldnt have a bonus in trying to block such a spell.

Deleterious Circumstances (spells of range sight or range eye)

Lol, i missed this one before, of course he doesnt want Sight Range spells then...

I realized when later books came out that the vis entry was about how much vis you could pull out of the corpse of a magical/faerie/etc creature, it wasn't about how much vis a character carried around with them. Whoops.

Yeah, and isnt that just the kind of oopsies we all love and hate to make...

[DIREWOLF75]

@Richard Love

So is drying out.

Yes, if you´re dead.

Sure, using ReIg magic it is. That doesn't necessarily mean that it can't be easier (or harder) using MuCo to get a "similar" effect.

Yes it is, based on the guidelines i quoted.

I would personally be happy with a Base MuCo 2 spell that gave somebody the ability to be "flammable" if that was translated into just giving a -5 penalty to Soak from heat based damage. You can then add a magnitudes for a "more powerful effect" to get a bigger penalty.

It would still be completely out of whack with any similar guidelines.
The revised spell is still very powerful for its level, but i can probably live with it.

Have you considered the difference to raising soak? You need Base 50 to raise it by +10 with MuCo.
If you let it be reduced by -10 at Base 2 that means you will be hard pressed not to allow a generalised -10 at Base 5 or so, and i could easily argue that it should be no more than 4, even 3 isnt completely out of the question. You´re essentially doing the same thing in two "directions" but doing it one direction is 10 times harder than doing it the other direction. Its not like the difference between doing damage and healing as here you´re doing the one and the same thing, messing with people´s bodies and how much they can handle without breaking.

So no, Base 2 for such a powerful effect would make me very much unhappy.

[The_Fixer]

@DIREWOLF75

I would say "Fire" is narrow enough. Ignem covers fire, heat and light even without looking closely at it(ie like cold, darkness etc) so a Major Focus should be enough to cover 1/3 of an Art.

Yup.
And isn't fire already a minor focus by the RAW? I can't seem to remember.

@DIREWOLF75

It would still be completely out of whack with any similar guidelines.
The revised spell is still very powerful for its level, but i can probably live with it.

Have you considered the difference to raising soak? You need Base 50 to raise it by +10 with MuCo.
If you let it be reduced by -10 at Base 2 that means you will be hard pressed not to allow a generalised -10 at Base 5 or so, and i could easily argue that it should be no more than 4, even 3 isnt completely out of the question. You´re essentially doing the same thing in two "directions" but doing it one direction is 10 times harder than doing it the other direction. Its not like the difference between doing damage and healing as here you´re doing the one and the same thing, messing with people´s bodies and how much they can handle without breaking.

Oooooooooooooh yes.

[maine75man]

@Erik Tyrrell

Crossbow with an Incantation Trigger[/b]
ReVi Gen
Range: personal, Duration: Sun, Target: Individual

Diurnal Watching Ward
ReVi Gen
Range: Touch, Duration: Sun, Target: Individual

Sorry this came up in another thread. Don't watching ward type spells need a special duration to release a spell on cue. Otherwise I think these spells would release the other spells at sundown and sun up only (the end of their duration). Also as target individual spells I think you would need multiple castings of said spell to hold more then one spell. Though that could have been what you meant.

[Erik_Tyrrell]

@maine75man

Sorry this came up in another thread. Don't watching ward type spells need a special duration to release a spell on cue. Otherwise I think these spells would release the other spells at sundown and sun up only (the end of their duration).

So duration special based on day but with a +1 modifier for being non-standard? I had previously considered the special duration of watching ward to be because it could last for over a year. These do seem to be awfully low level for their power so adding a magnitude to them should be a reasonable alteration.

Also as target individual spells I think you would need multiple castings of said spell to hold more then one spell. Though that could have been what you meant.

I see where you're coming from and it was not Ranulf's plan to put more than one spell in a particular container spell. But (serf's parma) Watching Ward from the core book can hold more than one spell and it has target individual.

[maine75man]

@Erik Tyrrell

@maine75man

Sorry this came up in another thread. Don't watching ward type spells need a special duration to release a spell on cue. Otherwise I think these spells would release the other spells at sundown and sun up only (the end of their duration).

So duration special based on day but with a +1 modifier for being non-standard? I had previously considered the special duration of watching ward to be because it could last for over a year. These do seem to be awfully low level for their power so adding a magnitude to them should be a reasonable alteration.

Rereading the description of Watching Ward I'm even more confused. The spell does say that the Ritual nature supports the indefinite duration. So the spell might be a ritual just because the duration could be so long. Also the duration has no modifier and is essentially the same difficulty as momentary. It's a legacy and a Vim spell so weirdness abounds with those.

Even the minor breakthrough in watching wards from Rival Magic isn't terribly clear. Though that writeup does seem to hint that the Watching effect (whatever that might be) itself needs to be part of a ritual. Are there any more watching type spells in any other books?

Also as target individual spells I think you would need multiple castings of said spell to hold more then one spell. Though that could have been what you meant.

I see where you're coming from and it was not Ranulf's plan to put more than one spell in a particular container spell. But (serf's parma) Watching Ward from the core book can hold more than one spell and it has target individual.
[/quote]
You are correct multiple spells are doable and work just like your spell description described it. With the added bonus of being able to tie in an incorporated Intellego spell to act as a trigger. Legacy Vim weird.

[Erik_Tyrrell]

@maine75man

@Erik Tyrrell

@maine75man

Sorry this came up in another thread. Don't watching ward type spells need a special duration to release a spell on cue. Otherwise I think these spells would release the other spells at sundown and sun up only (the end of their duration).

So duration special based on day but with a +1 modifier for being non-standard? I had previously considered the special duration of watching ward to be because it could last for over a year. These do seem to be awfully low level for their power so adding a magnitude to them should be a reasonable alteration.

Rereading the description of Watching Ward I'm even more confused. The spell does say that the Ritual nature supports the indefinite duration. So the spell might be a ritual just because the duration could be so long. Also the duration has no modifier and is essentially the same difficulty as momentary. It's a legacy and a Vim spell so weirdness abounds with those.

if you look at the actual numbers though rather than the design line at the bottom I think that you'll see (serf's parma again) that there is a duration modification to level.

[maine75man]

@Erik Tyrrell

if you look at the actual numbers though rather than the design line at the bottom I think that you'll see (serf's parma again) that there is a duration modification to level.

Unfortunately no I just checked at your suggestion. The guideline is level+5 and Watching Ward is a touch spell so that accounts for all modifications. Even checked the errata.

[Erik_Tyrrell]

@maine75man

@Erik Tyrrell

if you look at the actual numbers though rather than the design line at the bottom I think that you'll see (serf's parma again) that there is a duration modification to level.

Unfortunately no I just checked at your suggestion. The guideline is level+5 and Watching Ward is a touch spell so that accounts for all modifications. Even checked the errata.

So it has four magnitudes for duration.

[maine75man]

@Erik Tyrrell

So it has four magnitudes for duration.

no +5 to effect so just one magnitude

[ExarKun]

Uh?

The 3d guideline in general ReVi is: "(...) a container will hold a spell for a specific length of time before releasing it", which is obviously the case. The level is "level less than the level +5 mùagnitudes".

Solved, it's +4 for equivalent to year, thus ritual and is "special".

[maine75man]

Yup magnitudes not effect. So it does work out. Chagrined

[Erik_Tyrrell]

Clearly this exercise did not purge thoughts of the character from my mind, in fact probably the opposite.

The following is a spell that Ranulf can spont. I took my cues from rego craft magic in covenants, the following is an ignem adaptation of the Mystical Carpenter from that book. I gave the spell an additional magnitude and I raised the ease factor of the finesse rolls by 3. Do you think that this was too much or too little?

The Carpenter of Flames
ReIg. 30
R: Touch, D: Mom T: Group
The Magus selects a pile of wood or stone that has been transformed into a fire and the spell cuts , splits, carves, and joins the transformed wood or stone into the desired form. This form will persist even after the spell transforming the wood to fire expires. The magus must make a perception + finesse roll to determine the success of the process substituting for a craft carpenter or masonry roll and if this fails the results are just a mess of chopped up wood or rubble the ease factor is at least 6 higher than a carpenter's craft roll would require so the simplest basic items would have an ease factor of 9.
If the magus chooses inappropriate wood or stone, the spell still acts but he resulting goods will undoubtedly be of inferior quality. The magus' choice of wood or stone can be aided by spells like The Carpenter's Keen Eye (Covenants p.51) or the advice of an actual craftsman.
(Effect: Base 10 +1 touch, +2 Group, +1 flexibility)