Rego Mentem - what does it do?

Games Discussion Ars Magica
1

I'm puzzled about Rego Mentem and how you use it to do things. A lot of what I see as mind control feels very CreoMentem-esque. Even Aura of Ennobled Presence feels more Creo-y (creating a feeling of loyalty) than Rego-y.

Outside of mental state alterations, where does Creo leave off and Rego begin? Can I incline responses of fear to a specific object via Rego, and if so how is that significantly different than the CrMe spell 'Panic of the Trembling Heart' ?

Does Rego allow (like many other arts) to do momentary changes that persist after the spell ends? Would a rego-style fear spell that encourages reactions to a specific object of fear persist after the spell ended - until the target had reason to question their fear?

Is it the case that with Mentem, the techniques of Creo, Muto and Rego share a lot of common ground?

The Rego Mentem guidelines just make me confused.

2

I would say that

  • Creo Mentem create thoughts, emotions and memories in the mind of the target
  • Rego (as Muto) Mentem acts on thoughts, emotions and memories that are already present in the mind of the target

So, if you want somebody who is normally not afraid of dogs to become afraid of dogs, you would have to use Creo instead of Rego.

I would say no at first glance.

Nicolas

3

Art & Academe , page 34 has Rego Mentem Guidelines as well as 03 ReMe spells.

You might want to think about Rego Craft applications for Mentem.
Normally , you apply this magic to perform the same task as a mundane craftsman.
While there are no psychiatrists , there are professional Interrogators.
(or Torturers , if you prefer)
A Dominican Priest is questioning a suspected heretic by continual bombardment of questions.
(no actual physical torture is used)
ReMe applied in this manner would give the effect of a days questioning in an instant.
(standard use of craft magic , with +03 to the Ease Factor of the mundane task)

4

Perhaps I can give the same answer as Nicolas in a different way, a way to sound more consistent. Here are two examples:

You could use ReTe to pick up a key and unlock a door. When the spell ends you no longer control the key but the door remains unlocked. You could use ReMe to make a person pick up a key and unlock a door. When the spell ends you no longer control the person but the door remains unlocked.

You could carve a rock directly using ReTe. After the spells ends the carving would remain but you could no longer keep carving it. You could use ReMe to control reactions to make something more fearsome to the target (as in your question, though I usually just use CrMe to cause fear for the reason Nicolas mentioned). After the spell ends you could no longer make the thing more fearsome but the memory of it being more fearsome would persist, which could have other lasting consequences such as the target being unwilling to face it again because of how fearsome the target remembers it being instead of because of how fearsome it is.

Chris

5

Interesting idea, especially for the sadistic. I would probably specify that it wouldn't give you the information of a day's questioning since the target hasn't had the time to say anything of consequence, but it would leave the target as pliable as at the end of a day of interrogation.

Hmmm... I could see this working extremely well in different applications. For example, you don't really want to use CrMe to create loyalty in the long term. But using your idea, you could essentially brainwash someone very quickly, potentially creating fanatics for your cause. You then wouldn't have the problems of persistence and dispelling that CrMe has. While CrMe is useful for immediacy, ReMe can be used for conditioning.

Thanks, Ravenscroft! You have opened my eyes to some new and interesting possibilities with that fresh look, especially since I'm playing a Jerbiton Rego expert. Mmm... conditioning... yummy... :smiling_imp:

Chris

6

Creo Mentem creates a strong inclination.

Rego Mentem forces someone to accept something as true; forces someone to perform a specific action; forces someone to enter a different state of consciousness (i.e. sleep or wakefulness).

We can step OC and look at it from a psychiatric perspective:

CrMe can create a philia or phobia of dogs- an emotional response to stimuli.

ReMe creates a compulsion, like with someone with Obsessive Compulsive disorder, who must perform an action but whose motivation isn`t emotional per se.

Or to think of it another way:

Creo creates something entirely new that was not there before.

-Create a new memory that had no natural cause (i.e. never happened)
-Create a new emotion that had no natural cause (i.e. Loyal to Cassen, Lust for Susanne, Hatred for Bob)

Rego forces something to move to new naturaly attainable locations.

Movements of the mind include

  • Sleep to waking, and vice versa
  • Functions of Logic -- from premise to conclusion.
  • Functions of decision making -- the decision to act. You can force someone to do everything he can to protect Cassen, whatever emotions he might have about the issue.
  • Changes of Pre-Existing emotions -- make someone who is already angry more or less angry, or keep the emotional state precisely as it is now, preventing new emotions from forming or existing ones from disappearing. This can be extreme: Change an emotion of disloyal to loyal (as its on a single characteristic scale.)

There are advantages for each.

CrMe spells are lower levels for similar effects.
However, CrMe can be overrriden by natural emotions or force of logic or freewill. They`re also easier to counter using other Mentem magics.

For example. You enchant Bob to be very loyal to you, a strong emotional bond. However, a clear thinking and dutybound man, Bob logically understands both that you are evil and must be destroyed, and that his emotions are not natural. Though he is filled with profound emotional pain and anguish for doing so, he kills you anyway. He cries uncontrolably until the spell wears off.

Or, you create and Bob`s mind the emotional urge to kill Jim. However, Jim counters by using ReMe, issuing a compulsion to not kill him, but you instead. He will obey the ReMe, because CrMe controls directly how he feels, but ReMe can control exactly what he does.

ReMe can make a disloyal person loyal; MuMe can turn Loyalty to Lust; CrMe can make them think of hotdogs.

7

Greatest explanation ever! :smiley:

8

One thing I forgot:

ReMe can also force extreme hallucinations. For example, Visions of the Infernal Terrors makes the mind interpret everything it sees as being terrifying. This is not creating fear of something, rather it forces the mind to interpret everything as scary.

CrMe can either create a phobia of a particualr thing, or make a person hallucinate that something scary is there that isn't.

However, this only works if the victim is near the defined new phobia (in our saga, we had fun making lumberjacks scared of trees) and can simply run away from the imagined thing, or can determine that the imagined scary thing is just in his head.

ReMe, however, makes him afraid of everything he sees, no matter what. He cannot run away. He is living the worst nightmare ever, fully aware he is awake and fully aware he cannot escape.

This has a substantial chance of litterally scaring the victim to death.

So, ReMe can control how the mind interprets external stimuli.

Really awesome combined with Bjornaer sensory magic!

9

Yes. CrMe, too. I've really, really wanted to make a Mentem expert with Sensory Magic. But I don't like Bjornaer so much and everyone around me loves them, so I turn to other houses.

Chris