Requisites and Raw Vis Usage

Can you boost Cloak of Black Feathers with Animal vis?

  • Yes
  • No
0 voters

Again, comments very welcome. I think an arbitrary decision between the options would be better than no decision, but I would prefer the decision not be arbitrary.

I prefer to think of requisites as, to steal a phrase from your thread on dispelling spells with requisites, integral parts of the spell and therefore it should open up both dispelling and vis usage.

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There are a few possible limitations that can work here.

  • You use one Guideline when inventing a spell, that TeFo should be the only Vis allowed.
  • Your requisites are used in designing the spell, those Te/Fo could use Vis.
  • You add a random casting requisite for whatever reason, it's not part of the spell.
  • You use one TeFo when casting the spell, those lowest Arts are the ones that are boosted by Vis. There's no point in boosting a higher Arts as they aren't the limiting factor.

Overall, I think that randomly adding some Art because you happen to have that Vis on you is nonsense. It should be at least a true spell requisite. Whether only Guideline or only lowest can work is a reasonable limitation, but it could be ignored.

I'd like "only the lowest", but it doesn't work: An 12 / Co 10 requires 1 vis (Co) for 12/12, but 3 vis (An+Co+Co) for 14/14 which is plain wrong.

I voted yes because An is a true requisite in of this spell.
Also, "only Arts used in spell design" is easy to explain and offers more freedom than "just guideline".

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No. Only vis associated with the Technique or the Form of a spell can boost it, so only Muto and/or Corpus vis can be used in this case. Mechanically, a requisite should always limit the ease with which a spell is cast, or at least never improve it.

3 Likes

I really dislike opening up more Forms or Techniques for vis. Requisites are supposed to limit the primary Art, not give it a boost. Opening this up to using Mu, An, or Co vis gives you a much larger amount of vis to use with a limit of Mu+An+Co. Even if you change another rule so they wouldn't stack like this, it still means something that is supposed to be limiting gives you more options of what vis to use and so is the opposite of limiting. This creates an ugly exploit where you want to add free requisites to spells to raise your vis limits (and potentially get big boosts to lab totals).

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I voted yes, but I would limit the number of pawns in Co + An to the lower of Corpus and Animal, just as they are used in the lab total and casting total.

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I the rules are pretty clear on this point:
"It is possible to use raw vis to boost the
power of a maga’s spells. The vis must match
either the Technique or the Form of spell,"
ArM5 p82

the Technique or the Form. Singular.
Vis matching any requisites can't be used for boosting.

What is unclear is if you can mix and match Technique-vis and Form-vis when boosting a spell, or if it has to be all of one sort.

The rules for what vis can be used to power rituals is even clearer:
"The vis used in a Ritual spell must match
either the Technique or the Form of the spell.
It is possible to use both types of vis at once. In
addition, the maximum number of pawns of a
given type that a magus may use in spellcasting
is his score in the corresponding Art."
ArM5 p81.

'the Technique or the Form', 'both types'.
I don't see any opening in this wording for any other type of vis than those of the main Technique and Form of the ritual

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That's not as strong as "we" wish, since Requisites are described later on. Requisites are what, p116 or so? But yeah, going "guideline only" is nice and simple.

I voted no. If this applies for requisites, I think it should apply for casting requisites too. And it seems weird for a ReTe spell to get easier to cast if you are moving wood instead of stone. (Because then another type of Vis can be applied to it.)

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The "main" Technique and Form are the ones actually used to calculate the Casting Total, right? :wink:

This is a good point. Applying it to casting requisites feels wrong, and given that we do not have clear rules for when a spell can have casting requisites, this would open the door to abuse. "I need to heal this grog now, but I only have Perdo vis! I know, I'll add a Perdo casting requisite to the Ritual!"

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I'm thinking about going with "No". If you want to argue against that, please do it on the Spell Arts and Vim thread.

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