I was distressed to learn from the Berk List that has gone dark. I am not sure this is a permanent state of affairs, but since Durenmar was last updated in 2005, I fear that it may be.

Archives of Durenmar content are available from the Internet Archive at

I would like to see this content re-hosted somewhere on the Web. Indeed, I offer Project: Redcap as a location and am willing to do some (not all ) of the work required to make that happen. But I think legal considerations constrain my actions a bit.

Yes, legal considerations do matter.

Articles on Durenmar are copyrighted by their authors. So the first thing I ask is, if you wrote an article for Durenmar, is your permission to re-post that article to Project: Redcap. You will receive credit as the original author. If you do not want your article converted to an editable Wiki page, I can lock it so as not to be edited.

The second obstacle is that I cannot simply slurp all the old Durenmar pages out of the Internet Archive with my fancy hacker skillz. They have technological measures in place to prevent that. I believe in good faith it is consistent with the Internet Archive's terms of use* for me to copy the articles one at a time IF I have the authors' permission, but that will be a painstaking process. There are 79 articles.

I doubt we will be able to reconstruct all 79, but if we can get a substantial fraction of them, that would be great.

Volunteers welcome; please contact me off-list.

  • The FAQ suggests you can't copy material from the Internet Archive at all, but what the terms of use say is that you can't violate copyright. Those are aligned, but not congruent, statements.


-Andrew Gronosky

About a third of the articles seem to be by one Mark D F Shirley - if you can get his permission, you've gone a long way.

IA does allow people to copy their stuff. They host librivox, after all, and the whole point of that is to give stuff away.

Good to know, thanks. :slight_smile: My first attempt (using wget) failed; if you have technical advice for how to grab a copy of the archive, please PM me.

Sorry not to PM - in a rush. will do it for $15.

(Sure, there are other ways, but they require skills I don't have.)

PS, you can copy my piece if you want.

I tried this way:

wget -r -p -k -e robots=off

but that kept downloading in a loop for some reason, which is ugly...

So I did the following:

lynx -dump -listonly | grep -o 'http.*' | grep -v '#'|sort -u > links

This fetches all links from the site index. A few need to be deleted manually with a text editor.

Then you can do

wget -p -k -i links

to fetch the pages, along with stylsheets and images and have the links in the pages converted, so you can use the site offline.

hth, fury

Thanks, you just saved me $15. If you are ever in Boston I'll buy you a beverage of your choice. :slight_smile:

Copy and pasting seems to work for me. Not exactly elegant but it works.

I've noticed a lot of the articles seem to have their disclaimers at the top. you know the ones that say "The copyright of this article remains with the original author. Articles may be copied or distributed freely for personal non-profit use, provided that the author is properly credited.", or the equivalent. With such clear statements of intent I don't think any of the authors will have a problem.

I could be horribly mistaken though.

Thanks. I regard Project: Redcap as non-profit, but not personal. So better to ask the authors' permission before I re-post them. So far I have received permission from two authors who are still active in the community. For the others, I can link to the Wayback Machine.

Well, Mark Shirley just posted to another thread. So, he's been on the forum recently. Maybe PM him about his articles, at the least.

I'm one of the authors who gave permission :smiley:


Thanks to fury's technical advice, I have a ZIP file of the content, which I have uploaded to Project: Redcap. Feel free to grab a copy if you would like to have it.

I have decided it is probably OK for me to distribute copies of the original files, but I still want to get the authors' permission before I convert their work into Wiki pages.

If you happen to have written for Durenmar and approve of having your article(s) posted on the Wiki, please let me know. I can lock the page so no one edits it, if you want.

Well, that's half the articles right there...