Rune magic guidelines and hermetic magic


Long time lurker, first time writer...

Could the rune magic guidelines in Hedge Magic be used after integration of rune magic to hermetic magic? I'm assuming that following the example of integrating Scientates Suleimanis in the Cradle and the Crescent page 45, one could integrate the guidelines in a similar fashion. Is this even necessary? Could the guidelines be duplicated with hermetic magic even without additional insights? Do you guys think that the levels would need to be adjusted?

Thank you in advance for you scholarly insights! :slight_smile:

Welcome to the forum, newsalor.

HMRE p.140 Hermetic Integration of Vitkar Magic as a Major Breakthrough does give a magus "a new Rune Duration and a new Inscription Target, which work similarly to Ring and Circle but do not require penetration". TC&tC p.45 Scientates Suleimans is an Hermetic Breakthrough (ArM5 p.27).

If a player wishes her maga to make a similar Hermetic Breakthrough for Vitkar Magic, she needs to discuss this with her troupe. Such a Breakthrough will be highly saga dependent, and likely shape the saga. It is not something to introduce without thorough discussion.

Just lifting the Rune guidelines from HMRE p.127ff and making them into Hermetic ones without a Breakthrough could be a heuristic method for a very singular saga. Expect your troupe (players, not magi) to work on it for many months and redo or lose the Order of Hermes in the process.

The guidelines for Hermetic magic are not cut in stone, but a lot of work and discussion went into them over the years. Most sagas have their own reasoned modifications or interpretations of these guidelines. Perhaps your troupe adds one or two from HMRE p.127ff for you?


You might also want to consider to what purpose you're integrating the rune guidelines. What do you want to do with them that cannot be achieved by application of the Hermetic Arts, and will it still be as effectively doable when using the guideline to create a Hermetic spell?

Thank you for the input!

That was quite close to my reasoning. That is, one breakthrough for the Hermetic Rune Magic, as has already been established, and another to access additional guidelines with when using rune magic. However, I'm unsure as to what would be a suitable level conversion scheme for those guidelines.

Healing a light wound can be achieved with both CrCo 20 and Berkanan 20, although you'd have to wear the focus for the healing rune for a week for the effect to become permanent. Then again, CrCo costs Vis. If I'm reading the rules correctly, you'd have to use the lvl 15 CrCo guideline to heal a light would with 4 magnitudes from Inscription and Rune durations for a CrCo 35 hermetic rune magic spell to achieve the same thing with hermetic rune magic resulting in a higher level spell, some warping for the target and no vis used.

However, if one wanted to duplicate the Ansuz rune spell "I, (the runemaster), speak with Odin's Voice", that would not be possible with just the new target and range from what I'm seeing. Assuming another breakthrough, what would be a suitable level for these kinds of effects?

I am aware that these kinds of developments will ultimately be resolved by group discussion, but I'm looking for a baseline of sorts.