Saga set around 830

[Kodlak]

@Salutor

I don't know whether the Sub Rosa has anything useful, but the key source for rune wizards will be the Vitkir in Hedge Magic.

I would add Thrice Told Tales for the history of Spider's Coalition and Anglo-Saxon Runes that would still be around at the time.

[Ptitboul]

@loke

(...) necessary invention when permanent duration rituals were removed from the rules.

I did not know that they were removed. That can also explain why there is no ritual to protect books against fire and water. I think that I will stick with the ArM4 variant and allow permanent rituals. I am used to them.

@loke

it is a fact that Bonisagus' theory was extended to subsume the magic of any realm under the form of Vim, making them theoretically equivalent. The original theory of Bonisagus did not cover this though, so it is safe to assume that it is non-trivial.

And do you know when it was extended? I did not find that in the chronology.

By the way, I found the following item, which is aligned with my hypothesis that Dominion reduces the amount of vis available:

C. 875: Juden of Verditius slays many clergy on the island of Sardinia, thinking to limit the influence of the Dominion and revive vis sources.

[Arthur]

@Ptitboul

By the way, I found the following item, which is aligned with my hypothesis that Dominion reduces the amount of vis available:

C. 875: Juden of Verditius slays many clergy on the island of Sardinia, thinking to limit the influence of the Dominion and revive vis sources.

Just because a single magus believes something doesn't make it true.

[jason72 (Jason)]

LoH, page 12, dates Conciatta's Vim Breakthrough Tractatus to 930.

[loke]

@Ptitboul

By the way, I found the following item, which is aligned with my hypothesis that Dominion reduces the amount of vis available:

Please don´t poke the whasps' nest.

The idea that magic is declining was promoted by White Wolf when they ran 3ed. It is not overwhelmingly popular with players. It may or may not be true in 4ed, but it is certainly less clearcut than it was in 3ed. It is best left to the troupe to decide what world they want.

If the Dominion quells old magic vis sources, it still does not imply that the total amount declines, because the Dominion may create new sources. The magi may still want to revive the old sources which they know how to harvest. Again YMMV.

As I always say, ArM is (to my perception) designed to be ambiguous. Magi and scholars hold different world views in character, and different views should be true in different sagas. (The only exception I know is the Criamon worldview, which is canonically false in 5ed. I think the author had a bad day. I'd prefer to have left that too ambiguous.)

[Ptitboul]

@loke

As I always say, ArM is (to my perception) designed to be ambiguous. Magi and scholars hold different world views in character, and different views should be true in different sagas.

I fully agree, there are many ways to understand how Mythic Europe is and many ways to play Ars Magica. And it is especially true in the 9th century because it is not when sagas usually are played.
My objective when starting this discussion is to get all the interesting suggestions and comments that you can give, and also to learn from all that has been created for Ars Magica during the last 20 years...

All this discussion about the various types of vis and the quantity of vis can help me to decide the house rules of this saga, such that they will be playable.
The last thing I have been contemplating on this topic, is whether some person with True Faith can be harvested for divine vis... I would say yes, that one Faith point is one pawn of vis. Same for relics.