Scrying Stone

Can someone tell me what I've done wrong? I have an idea for a scrying stone but it seems too low level to be true.

Take a large pebble and crack it in half with a ReTe spell. Each half is an arcane connection to the other so I keep one and send the other with one of the other magi in my saga. Now I sit back in the comfort of my lab and wait.

When the other maga finds a building she needs scried she contacts me (never mind how, it's separate from the pebble), and drops the pebble half in a room or throws it in through a window.

Now I cast Opening the Intangible Tunnel ReVi5 on the pebble half using my half as the AC, then Maintaining the Demanding Spell ReVi5 to keep it open. Next I cast Eyes From the Tunnel InIm5, a variant on Prying Eyes that lets you see the room you're in rather than one through a wall (base 1, +1 conc, +1 touch, +2 room). I cast Maintaining the Demanding Spell ReVi5 on that spell too then cast Unseen Arm ReTe5 to move the pebble half around the room, under doors, dow hallways etc. Whenever I get it somewhere useful I drop it in a corner or on top of a bookcase, stop concentrating on Unseen Arm and focus on Eyes From the Tunnel.

I could slip the pebble in someone's pocket and have an AC to them until they change pants. It would have to penetrate PM but at level 5 that shouldn't be hard. I might get lucky and find someone has set down a bag then I can infiltrate their person without going through PM.

So what have I done wrong. The way I figure it I can pull off most of these spells as non-fatiguing spontaneous casts only four years out of gauntlet. Seems too easy.

One thing I would say is that opening the intangible tunnel is a concentration spell also and casting 1 spell while maintaining another is fraught, then maintaining 2 at once is also fraught. The third point is that for the spell to work it MUST be in a room. If it's not in a room then it fails.


I don't think you need a variant of Prying Eyes since the tunnels spell makes it as though your touching the stone which is in the room and therefore part of the target room. Or do you feel it requires a variant because the spell follows the stone rather then sticking to the room the stone was in when it was cast?

This is actually a classic ploy (what you are describing, AW, not necessarily the op). You're missing what Maintain the Demanding Spell actually does.

Cast IT, a Concentration spell. Then cast MtDS, which only requires an Int+Conc of 6, and has a duration of Diam*. The 2nd now supports the first, and both are on auto-pilot. Any successive spells are all "first" spells for the mage, np.

(* or better if you're smart, and have something like a PeVi effect handy!)

cmj - I'm not sure that the InIm effect you describe will work - you don't give the book reference, description or Base effect. Something like it certainly would, but I'm not sure that one, specifically would. The room is at "Touch" range, but that doesn't equate to the caster being "in" the room.

The rest - sounds solid!

(Pro tip - Depending on any arcane nature of the target, you might want to give your "messenger" a hair from your body - might be a bit riskier, but far less obvious when moving it around, and you can then Rego it into a fire and destroy the AC at that end. A shard of wood would work for the burning, but not be much less obvious. Either way, "months" should be ample to let them travel where ever they're going.)

Thanks for the comments. I think Prying Eyes is the right level. It conforms to the same restrictions that I need, except instead of touching the wall to see inside the room I'm "touching" the pebble through IT. The hair might be easier to destroy at the far end but is a direct AC to my magus. If things go sideways with the pebble I can sever the IT and destroy my half of the pebble with a PeTe spell.

I have a feeling my SG will be sticky about this. Prying Eyes is petty much the same spell but not quite. Doesn't really matter though since my casting total for InIm is 25 so I can spontaneously cast it without fatigue. I considered inventing it but it was easier to study In for a few seasons instead.

As an aside, if you are casting a Concentration duration spell just to cast a Diameter duration Maintaining the Demanding spell on it, why not invent the first spell with a Diameter duration to begin with ?

Otherwise, this should work. The only downside is that the scrying is far easier to detect, magically.

So here is a possibly newbie question. If I cast a diameter duration spell to maintain a concentration duration spell does the concentration spell expire when the diameter is up? Or can I go back to concentrating on it?

Actually, that's a fairly perceptive question.

And the answer is... the book doesn't specify.

But I'd say that so long as "Concentration" is maintained, it's all good. (And a mage has to be able to concentrate on some spell effects to change them, and that's kosher by the MtDS description.) So a mage could take over the spell before MtDS lapses, and then cast another, over and over, np.

Some SG's might disagree - and "magic" doesn't have to make perfect sense - but that's how I'd rule. (As a SG, seems to be one I don't mind giving to the players without a fight.)

Thanks. That makes sense to me. I'll try it and if that doesn't fly I'll go with diameter duration spells.

(Actually, as I hinted before, if it's within the mage's capabilities, MtDS w/ Duration:Sun and a PeVi spell to dispell it when it needs to be canceled is the way to go.

Let it run, come back to it when you need it, all day long.) 8)

Interesting. Unravelling the Fabric of Vim PeVi1 would cancel IT at level 5. Shutting down the IT should effectively cancel the rest or at least disconnect me from their effects. Even if the spells fatigue me I can set them up in advance at two minute intervals to recover.

Hrmmm... I'm not sure. (In fact, I'm pretty sure "not"...)

Canceling IT would only negate that connection, which is the Range and your mage's control over anything limited by such, but any effect is still up and running, maintained by MtDS. Just as if you had cast MtDS and then walked all that distance before the spell lapsed - the distance is not an issue.

You're still connected to any effect you cast that is up and running - and that's all the rest. :wink:

(Stop trying to cheese out of it - how wampy is this mage anyway?!)

Hmmm, what does wampy mean? Wimpy? He's pretty wimpy.

I understand the effects are still running. What is the effect though? I can't benefit from the effects I'm sure, but any other magus who finds the pebble will detect my spells and trace them back to me? By destroying the other half is there still an arcane connection to me as the caster while the other spells are running?

I'm not trying to skirt the rules, just to understand them. This is my first saga.

(wimpy, wampy - yeah, that.)

I understand, I'm just giving you/him a hard time for not taking the +1 magnitude to what is a very low-magnitude effect. :stuck_out_tongue:

I'm not sure if the rules say it in so many words, but any running spell can be seen as a connection to the caster. Even if it's not a "part" of their body, it is undeniably part of their magical power. (Your SG and Troupe should make a ruling based on how you all feel about this based on your understanding of the description (not examples) of AC's (p 84) - but remember, it works both ways, PC or NPC can be caster or "target".)

(The rules do say that InVi spells can then detect your sigil - requires a fairly high-level and rare spell, but it can happen. And there's a basic InVi effect (Invisible Eye Revealed) that can detect the spells, and then precautions will be taken.)

The odds are low, and there would have to be a high-level mage on the other end with just the right spell mix - but, then, that never happens... 8)

Thanks. That's about what I thought. Actually, casting the spells once in the morning at level 10 is easier. It's fatiguing but since I only have to cast them once and the room by room investigation hasn't started yet I have lots of time to cast then rest then cast again. Later on when the action starts I can just concentrate on the spell effects and be ready with PeVi to sever the connection.

So that leads to another question. If I have an InIm spell like Prying Eyes running does that prevent me from seeing normally, or can I swtch back and forth between normal and magical vision? If I can't switch back and forth and I cast the spell at sun duration I'm going to spend a lot of time staring at the inside of my friend's pocket. :slight_smile:

Corollary to that is, if I can switch back and forth, how many instances of he spell can I have running at one time? Can I set up half a dozen pebbles then switch from one to the next like a security guard watching surveillance video?

Doesn't IT say something like "if a magus can detect the other end, he can cast spells back through it"?
Or am I completely off my rocker? Don't have any books with me atm.

Yes, that's the risk of course. But as long as it goes unnoticed it should be fine. Someone would have to detect the scrying by having it fail to penetrate PM or scan the room with InVi to notice. Prying Eyes is level 5 so if anything will penetrate that spell will. Plus if there are no magi present it's safe. My first few objectives all involve scrying on mundane lrds and merchants so I don't expect any trouble.

The earlier posts about using PeVi to end the spells and PeTe to destroy the half pebble at my end which makes the arcane connection were meant to cover the event that another magus spotted the IT and started firing spells into it.

The "tunnel", once created, works both ways - spells can be cast "down" as well as "up". But detecting it is the trick.

Remwember that all spells stop working when the stone leaves the room it was when the spells was cast, though. "Room" does not allow you to move freely through diverse rooms. You will need to keep re-casting all those spells as the stone move from room to room. You would need structure for that. And if the guy goes out, well, it simply stops working.