Setting Development: Covenant and Characters

[Adauli]

A other idea for a way for entry could be falling within the city from the 3 floor down toward the ground, something a normal human wouldn't think about but it happen. Instead of falling the thing or human would vanish and direct appear on the ground of a central place in the domain. Our labs are build around the entry space while the exit space(s) are at a different not to far location.

Think a bit future on the idea of silveroak a isle surounded by a sea of clouds could be a good idea for a entry like my suggestion.

Edit: One thing is for sure we need a reason why our magus regular spend time outside of the regio or the town and road hook is worth no points.
Reasons could be that it is impossible to sleep in the regio, limited space that is just enough for the Labs, some kind of curse that affect everyone who stay in the regio for more then 6 day in one go or the regio simply kick you out after some time and don't allow a new entry for 12h afterwards.

[Trogdor]

@Adauli

Edit: One thing is for sure we need a reason why our magus regular spend time outside of the regio or the town and road hook is worth no points.
Reasons could be that it is impossible to sleep in the regio, limited space that is just enough for the Labs, some kind of curse that affect everyone who stay in the regio for more then 6 day in one go or the regio simply kick you out after some time and don't allow a new entry for 12h afterwards.

What about a desire for human company? A need to keep up appearances? The realities of politics in a world where we're trying to connect with the mundane world?

It seems to me that in this saga there are plenty of reasons that a magus would want to spend time outside of the regio. I don't think we need to manufacture faults in the regio to force that.

[Trogdor]

@Adauli

A other idea for a way for entry could be falling within the city from the 3 floor down toward the ground, something a normal human wouldn't think about but it happen. Instead of falling the thing or human would vanish and direct appear on the ground of a central place in the domain. Our labs are build around the entry space while the exit space(s) are at a different not to far location.

FWIW, I don't care for this means of entry. It seems a little out there for me. It would also require that all of us have 3+ story buildings, which seems a bit odd. It also seems very unlikely to ever be triggered accidentally. (Yes, I know it could. But I think it highly improbable and extremely rare.

If we're going to have a regio that we don't control entry to, lets' not make the means of entry so unlikely to happen by accident. If you want to make it so that no one will come into the regio, let's pay the extra 2 boon points for a regio that we control entry to. I'd rather not pick a method of entry that's so extreme that only someone apparently falling to their death from the third story of a building will trigger it. I mean, how often did that really happen in medieval times? How often does it happen today with the vastly increased number of tall buildings we have?

[Trogdor]

@silveroak

I'm thinking the regio is an island in the middle of an ocean- still working out details but it can be left simply by entering the ocean that surrounds it, perhaps emerging from a mirror made with sand from the Axios river. I'm thinking the entry points may simply be fixed points in the city which correspond to fixed points on the island that have been mapped out simply whenever one has been found, perhaps entered by standing in the appropriate spot and burning some appropriate effigy- something fairly easy to make- perhaps anything woven with a particular type of flower, or simply a certain herb (sage?)... the locations probably have some form of relationship to each other but it is unknown, and people could "wander" in- possibly from an unknown spot, but it would be very rare.

I have nothing against this definition of the regio, but it does seem like it would be very, very difficult for someone to accidentally enter (especially if there are fixed entry points that we control.) Perhaps this is an argument for making it a 3 point regio that we control entry to?

I guess the real question is how rare should an unwarranted entry be in a 1 boon point regio? I would argue that if it's rare enough then it really rises to the level of a 3 boon point regio. My thoughts are that if it's a 1 boon point regio, we could assume that it'll happen at least once (and possibly more than once) in the coming stories. If it's not likely to happen in the coming stories, then it's really a 3 boon point regio.

[Adauli]

Now I assumed in this falling that I.e. when someone jump from the 3. floor to a balcony on the 2nd floor that it already count as falling. Also I assumed the ground floor = 1st floor thinking but if unlike Nurnberg the city Thessaloniki at 1220 only have few high enough building then it don't work.
Beside that if people see a hunting falcon or some things falling down suddenly vanish it also would rise questions.

For my Magus to attend the mass each Sunday or even hold it him self in a church or chapel is a must. (With his Enigmatic Wisdom linked to singing and the prayer in the orthodox church are mostly sung it should be interesting ^^)

[Trogdor]

@Adauli

Now I assumed in this falling that I.e. when someone jump from the 3. floor to a balcony on the 2nd floor that it already count as falling. Also I assumed the ground floor = 1st floor thinking but if unlike Nurnberg the city Thessaloniki at 1220 only have few high enough building then it don't work.
Beside that if people see a hunting falcon or some things falling down suddenly vanish it also would rise questions.

I guess part of my issue is that it doesn't seem very thematic. I mean what is it about falling two or three stories that implies a transition? I can see passing through an archway or walking through a mirror, or wading into the surf. But why falling, and why falling that particular distance? Why would that particular transition have developed? It just seems to me like it's mostly a way of making it difficult to have someone random transport to the regio.

[Adauli]

Its ok it was just a other idea how the entrance could have be handled because the stone portal with token entry wasn't liked by a other member from our group.
Anyway I hope the covenant boon and hook are now settled even if we still have to work out the details like the Regio entry?
Given that we give everyone a free Minor Boon its ok to have everyone pick a secret minor hook even if we would have more hook points then boon points this way.

@Trogdor

Okay, so here's a second attempt at a covenant, taking into account some comments from above. We ended up getting a lot of boon points from the inclusion of mystery hooks. Let me know what you think. Again, this is only for discussion purposes. Nothing is set in stone by any means.

SITE
+1 Regio: the covenant is based around a regio accessible throughout the city; all entrances are not controlled by the covenant
+5 Aura: the regio has an aura of 6; auras of individual lacunae may vary
+1 Healthy Feature: the covenant has a pure spring in the regio where all of the residences gather their water
-3 Urban: the covenant is in the city of Thessaloniki
-1 Road: Thessaloniki is a port city

FORTIFICATIONS
+0 Manor House: the various structures of the covenant are normal buildings

RESOURCES
+1 Wealthy: the primary income source is a major income source.
+1 Secondary Income: the covenant has a secondary income source
+1 Vis Grant: the covenant grants vis to the members of the covenant as a matter of right

RESIDENTS
+0 Peasants: what covenfolk exist are commoners
+1 Literate: the covenfolk are by and large literate (this seems appropriate especially given that we're centered around a school)
+1 Loyal Covenfolk: the covenant has been around for a long time; what covenfolk we have are loyal
+1 Strong Community: we're an old covenant; the covenfolk are more tightly knit than green covenfolk
-1 Rights and Customs: the covenant has been around for a long time; the covenfolk have come to expect some things
-3 School: the center of the covenant forms the grounds of a local school; all of the magi are publicly associated with the school

EXTERNAL RELATIONS
+1 Felicitous Tribunal: the Theban Tribunal is easy to get along with
+1 Local Ally: the covenant has a friend in the city government or the Church
-3 Mundane Politics: the covenant is involved in the mundane politics of the city
+3 Powerful Ally: either a powerful nobleman or a prince of the Church has allied with the covenant

SURROUNDINGS
-3 Meddlesome Saint: the patron saint of the city is the covenant's patron as well, and has taken an interest in the covenant

OTHER
+1 Floating: each residence gets to pick one boon that applies only to the residence
-5 Mystery: I'm assuming we'll have at least 5 points of mystery hooks

0 TOTAL

I'm guessing we're all okay with the regio not being under our full control. We easily have the boon points to pay for that if we want. The jury is still out, I understand, about the regio's Aura. But I figured it was easier to pay for the larger Aura and have points left over if it drops than the reverse.

[Trogdor]

There's still the open question as to whether our 5 mystery hooks give us the full 15 corresponding boon points that the rules say they do. I haven't heard anyone chime in on that one. If so, we have a whopping 10 boon points to assign, making this no doubt a very rich and successful covenant indeed.

[thompsja]

@Trogdor

There's still the open question as to whether our 5 mystery hooks give us the full 15 corresponding boon points that the rules say they do. I haven't heard anyone chime in on that one. If so, we have a whopping 10 boon points to assign, making this no doubt a very rich and successful covenant indeed.

I thought Unknown Hooks are defined to be major or minor, so it's balanced if we say we have 5 Unknown minor Hooks, and we can purchase more boons the more of them we declare will be Major. Am I misunderstanding that?

[Adauli]

Maybe the secret minor hook each of us pick should be a reduced variation and the minor boon each player pick affect every other player who want to be affected. This way it could be more balanced without having to look at the points.

The “Unknown” Hook is unusual in that it modifes the value of other Hooks. When the covenant is created, the
Unknown Hook is assigned to one player. That player then selects a different Minor Hook that the other players and their
characters will fnd surprising and uses it to develop stories for his turn as storyguide. The Unknown Hook is a Major
Hook for balancing Boons

but don't ask me how real major unknown hook are to be balance with this official rule from Cov..

[Trogdor]

As Adauli quoted (and silveroak initially pointed out), a minor Unknown Hook is, according to Covenants, counted as a Major Hook for balancing purposes. If we follow that rule, 5 Unknown Hooks will net us 15 Boon points. I'd already counted in 5 boon points, so using this rule would net us another 10 boon points. As I said, that would significantly bump up the power of this covenant.

It seems to me we have three main options:
1.) Spend the 10 boon points and let the good times roll!
2.) Lower the number of Unknown Hooks we have (if we drop it to 2, that would only net us 1 boon point, which I'm sure we can easily spend.)
3.) Modify the rule so that Unknown Hooks are only worth 1 or 2 boon points.

What do people think? I'd be good with any option, though I wonder if option 1 makes things too easy for us.

[thompsja]

@Trogdor

It seems to me we have three main options:
1.) Spend the 10 boon points and let the good times roll!
2.) Lower the number of Unknown Hooks we have (if we drop it to 2, that would only net us 1 boon point, which I'm sure we can easily spend.)
3.) Modify the rule so that Unknown Hooks are only worth 1 or 2 boon points.

What do people think? I'd be good with any option, though I wonder if option 1 makes things too easy for us.

I say #1 - Go Big or Go Home! Our challenges won't be solved with a rich covenant, although it does make our life easier.

[Adauli]

the fastest and most rule conform way would probably to allow each player to pick a major or 3 minor boon instead of just 1 minor one.

But we also could go with weakened minor hook to drop the points they give.

Unless 3 of our group say they don't want to pick a minor hook I wouldn't reduce the number off unknown hook to just 2. I'm fine to give up "my" hook but that still need 2 more.

[Trogdor]

So, on the idea that we spend the extra points we get for the Unknown hooks, here's what I came up with:

[size=150]SITE[/size]
+1 Regio: the covenant is based around a regio accessible throughout the city; all entrances are not controlled by the covenant
+5 Aura: the regio has an aura of 6; auras of individual lacunae may vary
+2 Healthy Feature: the covenant has a particularly pure spring in the regio where all of the residences gather their water
-3 Urban: the covenant is in the city of Thessaloniki
-1 Road: Thessaloniki is a port city

[size=150]FORTIFICATIONS[/size]
+0 Manor House: the various structures of the covenant are normal buildings

[size=150]RESOURCES[/size]
+1 Wealthy: the primary income source is a major income source (a fishing fleet).
+2 Secondary Income: the covenant has a secondary income source (the school) and a tertiary income source (an alchemist's shop)
+1 Vis Grant: the covenant grants vis to the members of the covenant as a matter of right
+2 Hidden Resources: this is an opportunity for the first two storyguides that grab onto it to add in some hidden resources
+1 Right: A local leader (see Powerful Ally below) has arranged for the covenant to be granted fishing rights in a valuable local fishery

[size=150]RESIDENTS[/size]
+0 Peasants: what covenfolk exist are commoners
+1 Veteran Fighters: The covenant has a core of skilled fighters that serve as guards for the school and the magi
+1 Literate: the covenfolk are by and large literate (this seems appropriate especially given that we're centered around a school)
+1 Loyal Covenfolk: the covenant has been around for a long time; what covenfolk we have are loyal
+1 Strong Community: we're an old covenant; the covenfolk are more tightly knit than green covenfolk
-1 Rights and Customs: the covenant has been around for a long time; the covenfolk have come to expect some things
-3 School: the center of the covenant forms the grounds of a local school; all of the magi are publicly associated with the school

[size=150]EXTERNAL RELATIONS[/size]
+1 Felicitous Tribunal: the Theban Tribunal is easy to get along with
+1 Local Ally: the covenant has a friend in the city government or the Church
-3 Mundane Politics: the covenant is involved in the mundane politics of the city
+3 Powerful Ally: either a powerful nobleman or a prince of the Church has allied with the covenant

[size=150]SURROUNDINGS[/size]
-3 Meddlesome Saint: the patron saint of the city is the covenant's patron as well, and has taken an interest in the covenant

[size=150]OTHER[/size]
+2 Floating: each residence gets to pick two minor boons that applies only to their residence
-15 Unknown: we'll have 5 points of mystery hooks, one for each storyguide

[size=150]-3 TOTAL [/size]

So, I added in a bunch of boons that seemed appropriate. Our Healthy Feature is now +2, we each have another floating minor boon (3 seemed a bit too much, as did a major boon for just a residence), we have another source of income and our primary source is based on a right (I said fishing, since that seemed like a reasonable right to be granted in a seaside town - we could change that if people prefer), we now have veteran fighters in the covenant, and some hidden resources for a later story to introduce.

That leaves us with 3 points, just enough for a major boon. Here are some that seemed like they might be interesting:

Favors Owed: perhaps either the local leaders of Thessaloniki or the Church owe us some serious favors for past assistance
Prestige (mundane): maybe we did a great service to Thessaloniki in recent memory (helped with a plague seems likely, given our spell choices) that has the city thinking very kindly of us
Hedge Tradition: there could be a community of learned magicians or witches who support the covenant

We could also go for another Powerful Ally, if people want, giving us a powerful ally in both the government and the church.

We could also fiddle with the added points a bit to give us two major boons if people wanted.

What do people think?

[silveroak]

The problem with fishing as a right is that fishing is what a fair amount of the city would probably do, as opposed to being a specially granted right. The right to administrate and collect fees for a section of docks would be more like a granted right.

[Trogdor]

@silveroak

The problem with fishing as a right is that fishing is what a fair amount of the city would probably do, as opposed to being a specially granted right. The right to administrate and collect fees for a section of docks would be more like a granted right.

I just picked fishing because that was an example given in Covenants for what a Right might be. But I have nothing invested in that. I was just trying to think of some right that might have been granted to us. We could easily make it docking fees or anything else people want. In fact, docking fees are probably better since it doesn't require us to have boats.

[Adauli]

Edifices for our School building could be a other minor boon instead of the right or the 3. income source.

[silveroak]

It seems to me that if we have a regio with entrances we do not control spread all over the city, simply knowing about a large number of them (or significant number of them) should qualify for the secret ways virtue, since we could use the smaller regio to travel quickly across the city.

[Trogdor]

Those are both good points. We could easily spend the 3 remaining points on an Edifice for the school, Secret Ways, and one other minor boon.

Or we could drop Right, one of the Secondary Incomes, and/or one of the Healthy Features to pay for an Edifice or Secret Ways.

Frankly, I don't see that we need an Edifice, though I won't disagree if everyone else wants one.

For my part, I'd drop either Right or one of the Secondary Incomes to get Secret Ways (if people want it), and take Prestige (mundane) as a major boon. I like the idea that we have broken out of the mold of being hidden already and have started gathering prestige in the mundane world. If I were writing our history I'd say that the leaders of the city knew about us for a while, but not the general population. Then, about a year or so ago, a plague hit the city, threatening to do great harm and kill a great many people. The leaders came to us for help, and we went around the city with magical protections and cures that saved many people's lives. Now we have a good reputation among the population of the city, who have seen first-hand the good that magic can do. In any case, that's my opinion about what we should use the points for.

FWIW, if people don't want Hidden Ways, it's easy enough to simply say that the various entrances aren't quite easy enough to use that we can easily get around the city using them. Details can be worked out for either option.

[thompsja]

@Trogdor

Those are both good points. We could easily spend the 3 remaining points on an Edifice for the school, Secret Ways, and one other minor boon.

For my part, I'd drop either Right or one of the Secondary Incomes to get Secret Ways (if people want it), and take Prestige (mundane) as a major boon. I like the idea that we have broken out of the mold of being hidden already and have started gathering prestige in the mundane world. If I were writing our history I'd say that the leaders of the city knew about us for a while, but not the general population. Then, about a year or so ago, a plague hit the city, threatening to do great harm and kill a great many people. The leaders came to us for help, and we went around the city with magical protections and cures that saved many people's lives. Now we have a good reputation among the population of the city, who have seen first-hand the good that magic can do. In any case, that's my opinion about what we should use the points for.

FWIW, if people don't want Hidden Ways, it's easy enough to simply say that the various entrances aren't quite easy enough to use that we can easily get around the city using them. Details can be worked out for either option.

I like the Hidden Ways. It seems to make sense with the Regio. Either one of the secondary incomes (school? - while it's an income source, it's not a lot compared to magical wares). I also think that we are setting an example with working with the population - part of Poenitens' background will support this - so I'm in favor of the Prestige Boon as well. Given that this has Holy Magi, I'm not seeing the Edifice here - remember, the covenant is spread out all over the city.