Shape, Materials + verditius magic in item enchantment,

Hello everyone.

Forgive me if I'm being a bit obtuse here , but I am a bit confused about the 5e item creation rules (and the Verditius magic interaction with them as well)

I couldnt find a thread that answered my questions, but feel free to direct me if there is one.

Let us suppose I am creating an item ... lets say a beltmade of magnetite.that does something with horses.

a belt has a multiplier of 2, and the magnetite has a +3 for horses.

Does that make the magnetite a total of 8 ( 5 for being a base metal and having +3 for horses) , or just 3? (before multiplying it by 2 for the belt)

Now, let us suppose I am a verditious with a suitable craft of 3 and philosopaie of 4 and a magic theory of 7.

How does that all fit together? Do I add the craft to the material ? or the shape? Or is it a third multiplier?

I don't feel the wording in the rulebook is very clear on this.

Many thanks in advance.

You are confusing two things.

On the one hand the Material&Size table, which is used for calculating how much vis is needed to open an invested item, and the maximum amount of vis which can be used for investing powers into the item.

On the other hand the Shape&Material bonuses table which gives you bonuses to your Lab Total when the item you are enchanting is extra suitable for the enchantments you put into it.

These are used separately, and not together.

1 Like

Yeah the Shape and Material bonus gives you a plus to your Lab Total in the project, but does not affect the number of pawns it can hold/how many you need to open it.

For specifically Verditius, the shape and material bonus is actually less important if you are making Invested items.

When a Verditius opens an invested device the number of pawns of Vim Vis required is reduced by the craft score of the magus (as long as it is relevant). Whilst they do so they can give a generic "Shape and Material bonus" to the item called "Verditius Runes".

However This generic bonus is still capped by the instiller's Magic theory. So if a Verditius has a MT of 5, and you think to use an Amythyst to create an object to keep you sober (+4 temperance) and have a philosophy of 2, they can only get 5 points of extra lab total.

The outer mystery does not seem that useful in my view and the extensions in Mystery cults come with too many drawbacks (Hubris mainly)


1 Like

Thanks for the replies , lets see if I understand correctly

Lets go back to that example:
a belt has a multiplier of 2, and the magnetite is a base metal (material=5) has a +3 for horses.

So... the vis it needs to open it is 10 (2x 5 for base metal), ...although the actual amount I have to expend from my vim pawns is reduced by my craft ? (in this case if my craft is 3.... 10-3 =7 vim pawns expended )

The shape and material bonuses add (along with my philosophae) to my lab total (with the limit being my Magic theory?)

So I get my lab total =Fo +Te +Magic theory + [(Verditius runes +shape+material) to a max of my Magic theory)] + any other virtues and aura

Is that about right ?


That sounds about right.

Note that as a Verditius you also get to add your Craft score to the Lab Total.

Note 2: The modifiers from your Craft score only apply when you are creating the item yourself, not if you just grab an item someone else has made and start enchanting it.

Note 3: (Just for completeness) Shape and Material bonuses only apply if they are applicable to the enchantment in question.

Bob, I think there is no need to confuse him with the things from HoH:MC when he is having trouble with the core rulebook. ^^

Andrew, as ErikT said, you are confusing a few things. Let's unravel your example.

(EDIT: just saw your second comment, it seems about it (I'm just unsire if magnetite should be base metal or hard stone). I'll keep the example I gave below, since I've already typed. =P)

Suppose you want two effetcs:

  1. transforms you in a horse;
  2. increase your size once you have become a horse.

Effect 1 is simmilar to Shape of the Woodland Prowler (a level 25 effect). Effect 2 is Beast of Outlandish Size (a level 15 effect).

You can make two items, but you realize that you can create a single belt and invest it with both effects. This would require you to enchant the belt as an invested device. Assuming you only need to cast each once per day, you need an item that can receive 40 levels of effects.

The first step is to create the item. Looking at the table on pg. 97, a belt is a small item (x2) and leather has a base value of 2. Therefore, you need 4 pawns to open the belt for enchantment. You can do this in 1 season of work. This already gives you exactly the 40 levels you will need (10 for each pawn), but you begin to worry that once per day won't be enough. You are feeling wasteful, so you give each effect unlimited uses, increasing the level of each by 10. Now you need the item to be opened with at least 6 pawns.

You decide you can use a small magnetite buckle (I think it is hard stone instead of base metal), so it would be 4 (hard stone) x2 (small) = 8. You will need 8 pawns to open, and a Magic Theory of at least 4. But you open it as a compound item so that you can also use the Shape and Material bonuses of the belt.
If you are a verditius and made the belt you can reduce the number of pawns used to open. In your example (craft 3), you wold need 5 pawns.

Now you need to enchant the effects.
You decide to make it a fine belt using horse leather (animal hide has +7 to turn into the appropriate animal). When enchanting it your lab total will be Mu + (smaller between Co and An) + Int + aura + MT + S&M. If you are a verditius and made the item you add your relevant craft (in your example, 3).

Horse leather gives +7, magnetite gives +3 for animal, for a total of 10. With verditius runes you can add your Philosophiae score (in your example, 4). However, the bonus is capped by your MT, so it will be only 7.

After enchanting the first effect you start to enchant the second. It is a MuAn effect. The +7 bonus from horse leather isn't applicable anymore (it's not an effect to change into a horse), but the bonus from the magnetite is.

EDIT2: Looking back now, I can't help but think this belt also needs an effect to change itself into a saddle, linked to your transformation through a linked trigger. Put those 20 extra levels that are still available to proper use.