"Shriek of the Impending Shafts" Broken or what?

Back in 4th ed, this spell gave an automatic dodge of any woodne missile, and a hefty bonus for long range volleys, as IIRC.

Now, it gives just a hefty bonus.
But how can this spell actually work? With free will, the spell can never know the intention of someone to fire an arrow (that would be InMe, and still....). So the spell does not warn you, before the missile is released, and is on course to hit you, with this course being realtively predictable. But how does it account for wind? Never mind, this is minor.
And how will it help, to hear the arrow shrieking, when you need to dodge it? It cant' tell in advance, where it will be precisely, can it?

The only effect I see from this spell, is to warn an otherwise unaware Magus, that a wooden missile has just been released, and from what direction, and that he is in it's possible path. It should only give him a dodge option, though not with any significant bonus, if any. And it should give warning even if the arrow misses, as long as it's on the right course (e.g. no Botches).

Any comments?

Just cast a Ward against Arrows (ReHe(Te, An)) on yourself and you don't need to worry about relying on shrieks or bells or whistles whatsoever. :wink:

Yes, well I'd personally have done this. The case in my old saga, was a Verditius, who had crafted an item as the InHe effect (I imagine his In wes better than Re).
But my general quib is, that I don't see the spell to be able to work in its original wording. hence my take on how this could be done.

Suppose you wanted to be able to actually eat a He based product, running the Ward would suck. But using a warning spell, would alert you to an assassin's arrow - or even the rotten tomato of a munane taking a dislike to your Gift.

The idea that the exact path and target of a missile can be divined before it's even released, goes against how I read the Hermetic limits. Anyone else?

It also seems excessive, if the path of a flying arrow can be plotted with such precision, just because ut makes a terrible racket of itself as it flies. IMHO the hearing of certain predators - say owls - may be good enough for this. But not humans. I know it's magic, but were talking sonar-like abilities.

once released from the bow or the hand of the thrower, the object would follow a somewhat predictable path. But winds may be less predictable, or the movements of foliage from the wind or other people, and these factors would alter the vector of the missile. The shrieking sound would of course constantly tell where the object is at that precise moment. And this might give a slight defence bonus. I still think it's mostly useful to alert the magus to an otherwise unknown danger.
Say an arros is shot at you in complete darkness, and we assume that the archer can somehow see well enough, to make this arrow hit you, should you not move significantly. Yes, the shriek tells you something is coming, and to a certain degree from where. Is this precise enough to tell whether it's a head or groin shot, so you can place your shield the right way? Is it precise enough to tell you a vetor, with enough detail to actually step out of the path, perpendicular to the vector?

Well this is perhaps wher i may differ from some others here whom I have seen use this sort of argument re: the onconvenience of personal ward spells. To my mind, intent of the spell is equally as important as legalistic readings of the spell's effect(s). A Ward is intended to keep out offensive applications of the form(s) chosen (generally). That is to say, that which the caster has envisioned as undesirable at the time of spell creation. I hardly think a caster under the effect of a He ward would be incapable of voluntarily eating a tomato if he/she so chose, though it would keep out one thrown at him by someone else.

Why? The spell is an Intelligo Herbam spell, so why should you find it beyond reasoning that the eldritch forces unleashed by such an intelligo spell should be unable to detect an arrow knocked and ready to fire at the caster? Think of it in Star Wars terms if you must, The "Force" surrounds us and infuses us, blah blah.

At the very least it ccould be logically surmised that the effect might start just at the moment the arrow was launched, a sort of magical friction generated around the travelling arrow/bolt that creates the shriek/whine or what-have-you.

Anyways, the description of the spell itself suggests that it isnt always accurate since arrows could be diverted in flight with a simple Rego nudge and thus still strike the target, shriek or no shriek.

Yes it's basically just an early warning which offers defensive bonus in most cases and alleged guaranteed dodge in others. Any clever SG could just add more archers to make the guaranteed dodge aspect ineffective, if he/she so chose.

I think you are imposing a little too much modern mathemtical thinking to the issue. Medieval bow use was usually more a matter of en masse aerial dispersion and less one of vectored targetting (on a battlefield at any rate).

In the situation you describe, I think most SGs would say, "you hear a loud shriek for about 20 seconds before you suddenly feel an excruciating pain exploding through you abdomen/leg/shoulder, etc."

Moral of the story... If you lack enough Rego to make a decent ward, get studying. Intelligo isnt the optimal choice for protective spellcasting.

Um, it is magic. It detects an incoming wooden object. How it informs you of this is cosmetic.

Think of it as colouring the bowman's direction in red in your field of view and magnifying the arrow to three meter long and slow-moving if you like. That would certainly give you a bonus to dodge, would it not?

Yeah, I'm with WolfOfCampscapel: it's magic. Although I wouldn't grant as an SG that T:Hearing can provide you with such an accurate and detailed mental image (knowing where everything wooden will be in the immediate future), the text's wording obviously does imply that it does [so I'd rule that it does - I don't change the core for such trivial matters]. I'd prefer that the spell simply would have made wooden things about to hit you shriek, and a general direction, allowing you a tell-tale that you're in the missile's path and thus providing a +9 Dodge bonus.

The spell as written, however, doesn't seem to impinge on free will. As written, a bow will shriek according to where it's going to be in the immediate future, but then if moved by a man will change its course. Likewise an arrow's shriek's will only become relevant once it's released from the bow (so it's course is no longer controlled, barring magic or similar changes).

Sounds like WolfOfCampscapel has been watching the Matrix. :smiley:

it's magic :stuck_out_tongue:

Think of it more like...you are in a battle, concentrating on the hord of men about to overrun you, a lone archer shoots at you. Normally you'd have no idea there is an arrow comming, the spell gives a yell saying "look out"

Much easier to dodge something if you know it's comming.

Dodging an arrow means you have to move maybe two feet.

If it is shot at close range you get a +9 bonus (less time to react).

If it is shot at a longer range (greater than ten paces) it automatically misses. More time to react.

Never mind wind, trees, brush, weather, etc. The archer is the one that has to take account of these when firing the arrow.

The basic idea of the spell is to stop mages with crap for soak from being pierced and killed easily by mundanes. The fact is that this is Ars Magica and maga should be able to have some defense other than soak to arrows.

In fact, I think it's more useful than having someone yell, "look out," I see it more like "Here I come, here I come, here I come... look, I'm here!" So you know it's coming and you have at least a general idea where it's comging from... and possibly how close and how fast. That's certainly enough information to move to the right or the left.

It's not flawless, you still have to interpret the noise and move in the right direction, which is why it provides a bonus to the roll and not a flat out avoidance.

Yup, I always kinda pictured it workind like a radar, with the sound giving the direction, height and distance.