Sin as an Arcane Connection

The Arcane Connection is for long distance attacks, troubles. sure it gets them inside their Aegius, but Demons will have a hard time breaking through the Aegis anyways.

What you typically have (and I have this in spades), is Magi who pump their Parma score after the first encounter with a magical threat.

So even if you get an Arcane Connection you (the demon/SG) cant penetrate their magical defenses.

Which is why I think Sympathetic Connections are more important. THEY are what allow you to penetrate their magic defenses.

If your a (SG) Demon and you decide to stalk Maximanus of Tytalus... and he is currently holed up in his Lab reading some boring book and not out side playing "guess the sin" with you... you attack his connections, his allies, his sources of power OUTSIDE the Covenant... then when he comes out you have him in your sights. As a young boy, black cat, or turkey vulture (he cant see through your illusions!) you stalk him, and bedevil him with your sympathetic connection through the Sin of Wrath, which allows you to push through his Parma of 3*5 + Form Score. Most Demons will need to be two to three magnitudes higher than their Targets Parma to penetrate ... and that can lead to some big demons walking around with nothing better to do than pull prnaks on Magi. Where a x3 Sympathetic Connection and a moderate Penetration Score (all the better to bedevil other Demons of course), moderately powered demons can be a challenge to both Mundanes and Magi alike.

Of course Virtuous Magi have nothing to fear!

Sympathetic Connection Multiply Adders by the numbers:
Note: Recently means since last Confession/Communion
+3 Recently committed a Mortal Sin
+2 Recently committed a Venial Sin
+2 Committed a Moral Sin, but has since had Communion, but no Confession
+1 Committed a Venial Sin, but has since had Communion, but no Confession.
+Y Where Y is the value of a Personality Trait that Maps to a Cardinal Sin (Lazy, Angry, Jealous) Only Applicable is the Demon has an Obsession Power related to the Cardinal Sin.

Confession permanently removes the Mortal and Venial Sin Bonuses
Communion temporarily removes all Sin (Mortal, Venial, Cardinal) bonuses but only lasts for a week, and unless the Sins are Confessed they should return.

So a Magi who recently Killed another in Wizards War and is Jealous of Others +2 might be very vulnerable to a Minor Demon of 15 power who had no Penetration Ability ... His normal power level would likely not get through a Parma of 3 since even with a 1 pt cost the Penetration would be 10. With the Murder and the +2 Modifier the Demon would have a x 6 Penetration Modifiers (1 base + 2 Jealous + 3 Murder).

Confession would bring that to a x 3 (Jealous + Base)

Communion would protect him and bring him to a x1 Base... or better. but protection via Communion only lasts a week until the next Sabbath. Maybe other Rites (Easter, Sacraments) should last longer...

Cool idea, though I like Sympathetic Connection version more. Just be careful not to overly penalize pagan magi. It seems like things are going in this direction in the conversation. Right now it sounds like a regular sinner who is still fairly pious will have some penalties, while a fairly good pagan will end up with +1000 for demons attacking him in no time. (Remember that Sympathetic Connections stack.)


Sympathetic Connection Multiply Adders by the numbers:
Er... you do realise ACs also function as penetration multipliers, right? ArM5, p. 84, last column, just above the middle?

I'd still go for sympathetics though, because what are just the penetration multiplier, not the absence-of-range that comes with ACs.
I also believe it's thematically better - the sin is associated with the demon after all, even if it is perfomed by the mortal.

I was of the impression (no books at work) that you needed an arcane connection to use the sympathetic ones. That's why I think the sin should be an arcane connection. Sinning should be the first, necessary thing that connects the sinner to a demon. Then the demon can work on increasing his hold by tempting more sins and thereby increasing his penetration :slight_smile:

You're right.
Odd choice of rules though.
Oh well, Istill prefer Sin as SC over ACs though.

But Sight is an arcane connection, or if a Demon can not tempt someone into stealing something of value, or a hair, or soothing like that they should hang up their horns and take up fishing.

Even getting a single Power like Obsession off on a Magi when you see them, will count as an AC, then you work from there.

ACs abound. Like I said, even just being able to see the Magi is an Arcane connection, and demon's illusions cant be seen through.

I suppose sin as an AC over an SC makes sense from a rules standpoint for two reasons. One is that it's not something in general for the individual, but something between the individual and the demon. And to a demon the sin would be somewhat like a physical product of a person is to us. The second is that AC's don't stack the was SC's do; you get one AC and then stack SC's. This prevents the bonus from getting too egregious, which was the really bad problem I saw arising. So I'm now in the Arcane Connection over Sympathetic Connection camp.


The SC camp has 'smores.

But fair enough, I think that ACs are unique to the individual allowing you to find them out of everyone and everything, and SCs are more about resonance with the target allowing the magic to reach them. so to me the sin, though unique, would resonate more with the demons, and make it easier to affect them with your magic, rather than allowing them to hit you from wherever the demon is hiding.

Certainly with what ever version you use balance will need to be maintained... and the version I posted earlier was just a thought exercise.

Also, this AC/SC connection through Sin might want to be an Infernal Power (or whatever they are called). that affects the Demon (personal range), so that they have to pay for it (at creature design), but that it is not something that would be blocked by the Parma etc. makes it had to use within an Aegis... anyway something to think on for your game.