skinchanger and clothes

Much to my embarrassment, I realise now that I read p48, that I had read read shapeshifter instead of skinchanger...

As LVGreen is my storyguide, if it works for the story, change the clothes. :slight_smile: A SG can make up any virtue they want that isn't in the books. A creative player could pitch a new non-book virtue to a SG when making their character.

As an aside, if it has critical story spoilers write "My player's don't read" on the first post and I won't read. :slight_smile:

So it's thanks to me that the issue was clarified :slight_smile:
Incidentally, note that my post still stands: I was questioning OneShot's argument, not his conclusions.

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Well I can totally understand why I didn't remember that part - I totally ignored it. Because to me magic isn't stupid and so transformation magic - be it Hermetic spells or supernatural Virtues - would be capable of keeping the clothes or not as the user wants.

Its like how in Harry Potter when McGonagall and Sirius transforms its with clothes but when Peter does at the very last moment the clothes fall down to represent him going away.

So yeah, no matter what the official ruling is, I say the clothes can and should stay with the user if that is what they want the magic to do.

That shapeshifting and teleportation magic does not cover a mages clothes and accoutrements I find makes for interesting compromises and challanged for characters. In a long ago saga one of the mages was excellent at Corpus but had yet to aquire any talant at Herbam so she had to ensure any clothing worn when planning to shapechange was animal so her spells could effect it. Then she learned 7 league stride but the animal requisite meant it would be a long time before she could teleport clothes. Her solution to the problem was one of the first signs that she was going to be the most evil character I have had in a game, she made her clothes out of people which neatly avoided the animal requisite.
Every Bjornear mage I have seen or played has developed spells to shift their clothes or use illusions to cover being clothed after shapeshifting. The trope of naked lycanthropes is also somewhat traditional so I prefer to say that without the use of extra magic shapeshifting does not effect clothing. It's also a useful to keep the use of shapeshfiting magic to transport grogs and other characters in check as they they can't easily be shapeshifted along with armour and weapons

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Take a look at TME p.107 box New Guidelines for Instant Transportation (errataed here), especially Instant Transportation and Requisites, for the last summary on the topic.

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Not to worry Lee,
I started this thread because, as you probably now know, I needed a herald that could reach an isolated island and still look dignified and imposingly official.
While the herald is still a Skinchanger, I have made a (silent) ruling that the Transylvanian Tribunal has found a way to teach the Skinchangers in their employ to transform their clothing, but it require Vis, and a Season of work for each item of clothing, and only works for that particular Skinchanger. And then I simply gave her a Magical Mount with some hippocampus in it ancestry that could ride over to the island, while wearing barding and carrying a banner.
I think I managed to avoid dropping that spoiler. If I do say something saga-specific, I will add the warning to my players.

Though, as always, I am trying not to add stuff that can be contradicted by the official books. Just so that we are all on the same page.

The early replies were so definite, I didn't bother rechecking the Virtue description when I got the chance. Foolish me.

I'd also note that in general a Creo + Herbam/Animal etc. spell to create a temporary set of clothing when needed is often far easier than than trying to transform clothing to go along with you in your new form.

I was looking for a spell which makes clothes, and instead, I saw this comment in Magi of Hermes.

"Equipment: Alexander prefers cheap equip-ment he can discard if he decides to spend time wandering in animal form. His clothes are made entirely of animal products, so that they transform when he does."

So just have the skinchanger have full leather. If a magi wanted weapons, one could go so far as have a bone weapon. Vellum paper, bone writing implement, squid ink. A magi could take a bunch of stuff.

Alexander of Jerbiton changes shapes by MuCo(An) Hermetic spells, not by Skinchanger Virtue or such. He keeps his An and Co Forms on a similar level throughout - so casting requisites to change clothes made from animal products do not hinder his transformation spell casting.

As mentioned, post 17 advised the RAW specifically say "Clothes don't change".

I was suggesting if an adjustment of the rules is wanted, the animal product does change, is a change which is quite small.

One quick observation that came from carefully rereading the Skinchanger Virtue.
It says "Clothing and possessions (save the animal item) do not transform".
It also says that "While in physical contact with [the item], you may transform".

Why is this important? Because, at least in my case, I was assuming that you automatically transformed by donning the animal garment. Instead, you can keep it on, and choose not to transform. If you can stay warm and look dignified wearing a single garment (a robe/tunic/vest), than you need nothing else. Ok, you'll probably be barefoot, but ...

can the skin of a hawk or swan provide enough cover?

Then again, Dido founded Carthage on the amount of land covered by an ox skin...

Well, I read the text in Skinchannger "You have a magical cloak, animal skin or similar item made from an animal" as allowing you to have a garment significantly larger than that of a single small animal, either because it only "incorporates" parts of the animal (e.g. a cloak with the hem and neck adorned by vulture feathers) or because it's made from multiple animals of the same type. Or perhaps the Virtue comes with the knowledge of how and where to hunt appropriately large, supernatural animals of that type to make such garments; after all replacing the garment takes about a month.

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