So who has read Hibernia then?

That's a good idea, Mark. And this particular player would probably have a lot of fun with that role.

Thanks!

It's some kind of necrothreading but since the topic of this post is clearly adequate, i'm gonna post here.

For the first time, planning to go play an adventure in Hibernia, I'm reading it in details, and there is something I can't understand.

Page 113, the treaty of cnoc maol reidh states that "the order of hermes shall found no covenant in the lands of Connacht (...)".

Okay.
But from the table of contents, there are two covenants in that province: Praesis and Oireadh.
"Pact of Oireadh" may not be counted since it's maybe not really a covenant of magi of the Order, since they are not magi of the Order, but then why is this "pact of oireadh" place listed in the covenant list?

But Praesis really IS a covenant. I know that there are some good reasons why it is placed there (tCI p46) but I don't see how the text of the treaty could be read as "the order of hermes shall found no covenant in the lands of Connacht except for a covenant where magi could easily sleep to venture into Connacht, because we the Coill Tri would love to have guests... (...)"

Is there any explanation elsewhere on that apparent contradiction?

"Pact of Oireadh" is clearly a group of non-Hermetic magi, so does not count as a Hermetic covenant.

I believe the opening lines of the "History" section of Praesis on p46 give some explanation - "Praesis was established on the Connact and Meath border soon after the treaty of Cnoc Maol Reidh. Intended as a place where magi of the Order could meet with the hedge wizards of Connacht, within a century the purpose of its founding was all but forgotten, and its prestige was already waning".

When it was founded, it was a sensible border covenant but now it is a winter covenant that is a potential flashpoint for conflict. Its location does not break the treaty, but if a new generation of apprentices or new magi arriving at the covenant get the urge to violate the treaty, they have a lot of opportunity.

Good lord... Was it really that long ago? Time really does fly...

Anyway, the Pact is a non-Hermetic group of hedge wizards trying to do what the Hermetics do and form a pact or covenant. In theory they should be outside the concern of the Order. But hang on... Isn't that a worrying development? They look like they're getting organised like never before. They even look like they're trying to do research... That's Hermetic territory... But they're in Connacht and so apparently outside the Order's control. So is there a problem there to deal with? And how do you deal with it?

Praesis is intentionally problematic. Back in the day, as has been pointed out, the covenant was set up with all good intentions and with agreement across the borders. If nothing had changed it would be a great trading post for resources and knowledge. But now? Very different story. Praesis is on the border. It's either in or out of Connacht depending on who is pushing the argument. That it's now occupied by "the English" further heightens the situation. You could decide to oust them and reclaim it as an Irish covenant. But that doesn't change the "fact" that it's "in Connacht".

The thing to bear in mind with Hibernia as written is that it's all about conflict. It's literally all about finding those points around which conflict can and should errupt in your saga. For instance... The Irish magi invite magical and faerie beasts to the Tribunal meetings. Worse still, they have voice and (if I remember rightly) a vote. To many that will be an affront to Hermetic governance, to others it makes perfect sense. That's a possible point of conflict that's built into the setting. The book is filled with those. You don't have to leverage all of them, but find out what your players and characters care about and let them work through it. If they want to unite the Irish magi and resist those coming from the continent then they have to resolve a conflict - that between Vigil and Lambaird (if I recall correctly). They could help the Fir Bolg regain influence over Ireland if they fancied. Or even lift the Fomorach curse, lord help them. They might even try to break the unfair monopoly held over the Clesrada. Or expose the patent absurdities of the beliefs of those who live at Qui Sonant Pro Quieto.

Bottom line, there are lots of different things that cause affront to lots of different injured parties and it's up to your saga to navigate your way through them. Some you'll ignore and others, for probably intangible reasons, will strike a chord.

At times like this I'm reminded that I want to play in a Hibernia saga

My saga has been in Hibernia for about 25 sessions. After a series of unfortunate events, they have more or less settled on being "Pro-Hibernia" in terms of political stance, but in order to avoid outright war with British lords they've had to allow a PC knight to swear fealty to William Marshall the Younger.

So, on the surface, they LOOK like an English covenant, complete with a knight face-man. They collect their vis in the English fashion and aren't wild about most of the Hibernian pro-conflict Peripheral Code (like the macgnimartha). But they've alienated Ashenrise, the pro-reform Magi on the council have given up, a very Irish Bonisagus has become Praeco, and most of the magi just want to avoid conflict.

At which point I show them the cover of the Hibernia book and remind them, "It's not called the PEACEFUL isle."

Thank you for this explanation :slight_smile:.