Anyway, you can use both bonuses (with a maximum total limit equal to your Magic Theory) when creating items.
On the particular instance of mercury. It should be powerful. Mercury was historically viewed as a near magical substance and imbued with all kinds of allusions and metaphors. Quicksilver indeed!
Getting hold of mercury isn't easy and its poisonous too. Not to mentioned that to include it in a talisman would require some crafty construction because its a liquid. You'd have to great some kind of hollow, pour in the mercury and then seal it in a way that prevents it from escaping. Not impossible and frequently glossed over for the purposes of storytelling but its far harder than capping your staff in gold or making an iron wand.
Also, hold to rule zero. Is it fun if mercury is powerful? Does a brisk trade in mercury amongst wizards exist? Is there actually a problem with letting your players get a +3 to two different arts? I'd rule for fun and allow it.
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there's also the issue of the mercury escaping later on.
Even if you manage to seal the mercury inside your talisman, the seal may later be broken, especially if its sealed in a glass container.
Its my impression that any effect enchanted into the talisman that uses the bonus from mercury will be lost if the mercury escapes.
I had been thinking about mercury in the talisman, and I thought about using it in an alloy with gold or silver (an amalgam).
Depending on mercury percentage it would have various degree of liquidity/solidity, and would be easier to keep it inside the talisman. I think that with the rules for linking together different materials (Magic Theory score) it would grant the desired Material bonuses.
Note: That's what will happen in the saga I'm currently playing, anyway.
Indeed. But you might as well make any container used for mercury tougher than steel. After all, plenty of room for effects in talismans.
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I thought about this too, but wouldnt your talisman suffer warping from being under a constant magical effect?
That just makes it cooler!
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We are talking magic here. You can take a piece of solid wood, use Muto to make it part and insert the mercury inside a cavity. Now you use magic again to make the wood close seamlessly around the quicksilver. If you want it to show. Make a hole in the upper part of the staff, drop the mercury inside and use Muto to put a piece of clear precious stone as a lid to the hole. There, stone, gem and liquid all combined and visible.
Remember that mercury can amalgamate with other metals and it's been used for that purpose, especially in gold mining. So the use of 'solid' mercury, or at least mercury alloy, is possible, especially if you're alchemically inclined. Conversely, mercury won't amalgamate with iron, so it's easy to contain mercury in an iron flask with a bit of magic shaping, and that won't break easily.
Some things to keep in mind with talismans is more about shape than material. Talismans have the protection of Parma and extend the user's reach for Touch range spells. This makes staves very valuable (long reach) and other weapons nearly so, though staff bonuses are very good.
Next, consider the character. Pharmacopians are non-violent, so carrying a weapon, even a combat worthy staff, is probably something the should frown upon. And you want something you can take almost anywhere without attracting too much attention, so the best compromise is probably the walking stick. Easy to ornament to your heart's content, and is enough of a staff to get Shape Bonuses, and long enough to be useful for Touch range spells.
And one last thing to consider is that a magi might well not keep his first talisman throughout his career. Having a cheap and easy talisman in your youth is a good means to get a few quick boosts, then once you are much more powerful you can make your fancy, ornate talisman you always wanted. Without lots of Magic Theory you can only incorporate a few elements anyways, and it will take up less vis as well. Sometimes, a humble but useful talisman is the best option.
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My reading would be that enough damage to the seal to allow the mercury to escape would ruin the whole magic item, not just lose the effects that used the Mercury bonuses.
Yup. Now that Iām home I was able to check the book, p100 of core book:
If the enchanted device is broken, all its powers are lost
but how broken thought?
I distinctly remember reading that if you enchant say a diamond and mount the diamond at the tip of a staff not opened for enchantment, you can use the shape, but not material bonus for the staff, to enchant a power but if you do use the shape bonus of the staff and then later take the diamond away from the staff then any powers using the shape bonus from the staff is lost.
lets say that said hypothetical enchanted diamond topping a staff is used but the staff breaks, does that count as the entire item breaking? (I would say it counts as if the diamond was taken away from the staff).
How about with a talisman where the entire talisman is sort of opened? I am tempted by the interpretation that if an attunement bonus from a component is opened then that component is considered to be part of the item just like the staff in the above example and any power using it are lost.
My players have a long tradition of enchanitng a small item as a talisman and inserting it into another item like a sword, staff or even armillary sphere. They do that becaise the larger item can suffer damage. But we read it to mean that as the larger item can be repaired (using creo magic and vis to make the repair permanent) the actual talisman (inserted in the ip of the staff, or the crossguard of the sword) can recover the shape bonuses. Made them less wary of using their talismans agressively.
I think you had to mount it on the staff prior to enchantment, and I would assume that dissembling it later would break the enchantment completely. But, yes, you can enchant part of an item. (I may or may not be up to date with 5ed.)
I'm with Loke. My understanding of opening an item for enchantment based on only the highest cost component is that when all the components are assembled you open the whole item at the cheaper rate but that all the components must be whole for the item to still function. You can't open and enchant just a ruby then place it on the hilt of a sword and get S&M/attunement bonuses for anything but the ruby. The same goes for the staff with the diamond, to be able to attune bonuses based on the staff's S&M it has to be part of the item when opened and removing the diamond from the staff destroys the enchantment. The primary benefit of opening the item at the cost for only the most expensive component is the savings, which is great for Talismans where once you attune them their max opened slots are based on your highest TeFo combo and you can open more slots bit by bit. OTOH, for invested devices they need to be opened all at once at one level or the other so if the device is gonna be huge you really want to open it at the higher cost. I'm pretty sure you can attach a small item to the hilt of a sword and use those effects but it won't get the sword's reach or S&M bonuses. If you do the other thing and put your diamond talisman on the end of a staff that isn't part of the enchanted item you are no longer at personal range with your talisman though you would get the reach and the diamond breaking off of the staff would not harm the talisman outside of no longer having that reach.
[edit: if you have funky Verditius mysteries some of this stuff will be altered or you can do things like fix it but ignoring those mysteries for a moment...]
Anyone worrying about their talisman getting damaged should invest it with a Mu(Fo) effect to make it basically indestructible under normal combat or accidents. It's probably the first enchantment magi would put in a talisman.
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Yes and no.
I have very recently made my character's talisman. He is An and He deficient, which would in principle limit him to a metal item (or Human bone, but I'm not playing a necromancer).
I wanted a wand, both for the bonuses and for the aesthetics (sorry, no sarissa). Having a Brass rod thick enough to not risk bending would be extremely heavy. I would not want to swing around an 8-10kg brass stick, nor carry it with me at all times as my most precious belonging.
In the end I went for a knotted branch from a magical Birch tree which got destroyed by a botched Lightning spell. But with deficient He, enchanting it into being unbreakable is just not happening.
The same MuTe effect could make a brass (or any metal or stone) rod both stronger and lighter.
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You're conflating two different things. You can open a part of an item without opening another part. This doesn't use the largest cost of the whole thing. It uses the cost of the part you're opening. You get the shape, but not material, bonus for the thing it's mounted on. If they get separated, the whole enchantment is not destroyed, just anything relying on the shape bonus of the unenchanted part. This is wholly separate from enchanting and entire thing by paying the single, highest price for any one part of it.
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Get a q finger thin iron item. Inserts the items you want.
Plan b. Have another Magus enchant the hardness thing into another item: that makes whatever it touches extremely hard. Ensure it has some pentration. Insert it inside your talisman or touch your talisman with it regularly.