Something like Apotropaic Spell Mastery (RoP:I)? vs. Faeries

Sometimes you want or need other types of PeVi 'might strippers' than Demon's Eternal Oblivion.

Apotropaic Mastery from RoP:I p122 lets the magus add MasteryxHierachy to the effective level of the DEO. Hierachy is a score affected by the magus' Reputation.

But what about those pesky Faeries? What Masteries can be used to make this really effective? The most optimal seems to know the spell at a fairly low level, say 5, and Master it for Multicasting and Penetration.
But why not something like Apotropaic Mastery? That would be nice.

Other Perdo or Rego/Muto Vim spells used on other magic can be very effective using Rebuttal and Unraveling, HoH:Soc p129. But apparently not 'Faerie's Eternal Oblivion'.

And yes, I just started playing a Vim specialist. And yes, he has Flawless Magic, so I want to maximize the use of spells by Mastery abilities.

Mostly just Penetration and Multi casting.
Consider taking fast casting, learn from mistakes or even lab mastery.
If your group allows is, take adaptive mastery.

Also consider Wizard's Boost, even though that might mess with penetration (by effectively making it based on lower of Pe and Mu).

Fae just don't submit to eachother enough to use Apotropiac masteries I think.

All those special masteries would need him to be a neo mercurian or a member of the cult of mercury... Not easy.

Quick Casting and Obfuscated Casting (HoH-Societates p.33-34) can help, and they don't require membership in a mystery. And of course Fast Casting, Still Casting and Quiet Casting are always useful.

I agree, further masteries are nice, but (even with Flawless Magic) it takes quite a lot of effort to get to Mastery 3+.

After you've got DEO(fae) at level 5 and mastered for Multicast and Penetration, I would recommend just doing the same thing, but for level 10 --- a level 10 version lets you eliminate intermediate Might opponents (Might 10-20) much more quickly than the level 5 version.

I'd also recommend learning and mastering versions with different ranges (Sight; maybe Arcane) and different Targets (Group and Room or Structure). Group is handy when dealing with hordes of small critters and Room or Structure is very handy, because you don't need to be able to sense the creatures individually (you just need to sense the Room or Structure; assuming that they are in one). Room/Structure versions are especially handy for dealing with demons (rather than fae) because sensing the demons is often very problematic (due to the Limit of the Infernal).

I agree that inventing the DEO at a higher level or T:group could be nice. But that's kind of covered by Multi Casting as well, to a certain degree. Personally I find that stacking multiple Lvl 5 DEOs on a single target seems abusive, however it is not prohibited per se, and I will use that. And sure, getting high mastery is hard, so affecting more than 3 targets at a time is not very plausible. And a Group can be up to 10 beings in close proximity. The troubles here is that you start over with a new mastery ability, and can't even use Adaptive Casting to solve things if you learn the DEO ata new Range or Target.

T: Room or T: Structure actually serve a different purpose.
With these targets you can get rid of invisible and immaterial demons as well - demons that you couldn't ordinarily target at all! (Except possibly with Second Sight.) A very nice trick indeed.

Not RAW, but I would suggest talking to the SG about an apotropaic-like mastery ability for Faeries - I'd suggest basing in on Sympathy Traits. And gaining it through Mysteries or something.

Although staying within the RAW mastery abilities as noted above works fine IMHO.

Yes. That is the point.

Except, it only works for indoor-demons...

That's why demons don't like to be inside :slight_smile:.

And why magi don't like to be outside...

Somewhat off topic:
Kidding aside, I think this really is a huge hole in the mechanics! I agree that it should be easier to affect things in such a well defined areas as a Room or Structure represents. But it shouldn't be impossible to do otherwise. Circle isn't useful since targets need not stay inside while you draw it.

Maybe it's ok that casting DEO on a target you can't really sense (and hence can't use a T:Ind spell on) but catch it because you blast the whole room.

But Wind of Mundane Silence? Come on, sucks to be it! You most likely know there are spells or effects active. If using Unraveling the Fabric of... you target the individual effects. Should WoMS really have been T:Group then?

It is possible to affect things up to a set distance or so on. Just use a non-standard spell parameter (which is +1 magnitude above the nearest standard parameter). That's it. Well, for formulaic spells.

It's a shame the core spells don't make use of this mechanic. But it's there.

You've mentioned this before, and I cannot find it. Where should I look?

ArM5, p. 114, bottom of middle column.

Why the Editor, in his Infinite Wisdom, decided to place this rule under the heading of "Changing ranges, durations, and targets", is a Mystery for which I lack the initiation script.

It's a pain, sure. But, I think it is a feature.

That's what individual target Rego spells are for (pinning the target while the circle is drawn). Or, the grogs can always hold the target down.

Except it's not nearly as clear-cut as you present it, and almost every one I've played with who's ever even considered being an SG has required specfic virtues n order to use given ranges. Many virtues (faerie magic, Chtonic Magic) present their respective range/duration/target variants as ther main benefit, assuming you can just access them for a +1 rather devalues these virtues.

Fair enough. My reading is that it would take an unusually strict SG not to allow area-around-me spells, but the rule specifically gives the SG freedom and this is just my intuition.

In regards to all those Mysteries, I personally consider many of them to be accessible with a +1 (or perhaps +2) magnitudes, and the benefit of the Mystery is mainly to erode this cost. Some, however, are more "special" or violate standard Hermetic magic rules in some way (such as a Spectacle range), and I wouldn't allow them at all.