Spell for Mod: The Accepting Steed

Games Discussion Ars Magica
1

New spell for equestrian minded magi:

The Accepting Steed Muto Animal 25
R: Touch D: Sun T: Ind

Changes a horse so that it is not affected by the Gift for the duration of the spell.

(Base 5 [change an animal in a minor way so that it is no longer natural], +1 touch, +2 Sun, +1 size)

There are no explicit rules for removing an animal's Gift-sensitivity, but the description of Steed of Vengeance (Muto Animal 35) notes the nightmare horse "tolerates a magus rider" and The Wizard's Mount (Creo Animal 35), of course, creates a horse that is not disturbed by the Gift, so it seems reasonable to conclude that it is possible to mitigate the Gift's effects through Muto magic. The main question we had in our troupe was whether or not this counted as a natural or unnatural change. Any thoughts?

2

Hmm - since you're doing such a change, why not make the horse like the gift instead of removing it's sensitivity to it?

Oh, and wouldn't this be Rego? (manipulating an animal's emotions?)

3

I think there is an explicit rule that states that hermetic magic cannot remove the effects of the gift & can only ofset them.

My guess is that the Nightmare horse has other issues to deal with while under the effect of the spell that are worse than the gift which allows to specify that he tolerates a magus rider.

The created horse is another issue. My guess is that it is specifically designed for that purpose & it is for that reason that you could not create an instant 'mundane' version of the The Wizard's Mount without using the CrAn base 50 guideline (or is it 55?) for a magical beast.

I would agree. Just make the animal so docile that it will not react to the gift since it would be so nice & gentle :stuck_out_tongue:

W

4

At this point, I haven't been able to find the specific text that precludes removing the effects of the gift. In fact, I stand by the Nightmare Horse example as explicitly stating the opposite. If somebody can find the text though, I'll humbl accept the correction.

This doesn't make sense to me. If anything, the "issues" a Nightmare horse has to deal with should make it harder to be ridden by anyone, don't you think? This is a beast noted for its ferociousness, after all.

It does suggest an amusing scenario, though: "Quick, the dog is too busy being rabid to bite us! Give him a bath!":slight_smile:

Well, I continue basing this off the two spells in the text that deal with the issue. They seem to imply that Gift sensitivity is a quality, not a state (like a mood or some such), and as such a beast can be created with or without it (Wizard's Mount), or changed in such a way that they have it or not (Steed of Vengeance). Rego can manipulate people and beasts in such a way that they act as if they didn't have the quality of Gift sensitivity, but they still have it. Also, note that Rego is not given as a requisite in either of the cited spells, which it would be if it was neccessary for the extra effect. For instance, if I were to create a spell similar to Wizard's Mount, let's call it

[i] [The Clown's Mount
Muto Animal 35

Creates a horse that is normal in every way except that IT IS ALWAYS HAPPY! SO HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY! [/i]

we'd need a Rego requisite, right? And it's lack would be a glaring omission, because being happy" isn't something that Muto can manipulate. But a quality, like, say, wanting to eat grass instead of meat could be manipulated with Muto, although the change would not be natural.

Anyway, that's my reasoning. I appreciate the feedback so far. Feel free to poke holes in my thought process.

5

I believe the steed of vengeance and wizards mount are not affected by the gift because they are magical creatures themselves.
Thus animals indifference to the gift is a sideeffect of any muto spell that makes the animal unnatural (ie magical) and is base level 5.

This could lead to magi casting the phantom gift on animals they want to ride but this is up to the storyguide.

You could use Rego magic to control the horse but IMO that would be like controlling a puppet and would require some serious concentration and/finesse rolls.

The rule about overcoming the gift states:
"Muto imaginem, or indeed other imaginem magic, cannot overcome the effects of the gift, although it might offset them a little." (AM p. 145)

6

We have some magi rather inclined to ride. I've never thought of using Muto to do the trick, but always filed it under Rego (inspired by a spell from Triamore). Rego being within the possible - which I would think is what it is for a horse to carry a rider the horse doesn't trust.

I would say that that depend on how you expect to use the Rego spell - even if its clearly Animal, I think it is fruitfull to use the destinction between mind/corpus - as concerning animals both are covered by mentem. If you use the Rego Animal spell to control it's movements, yes then would be serious concentration etc., but my take is to use the Rego Animal to influence its mind akin to mentem, then the same direct control wouldn't be neccesary. The text on Rego Animal actually states the Base magnitude for "Calming an animal" and "manipulating an animals emotion" - would think that would be enough to vane the horse to an uneasing rider, even one with the Gift. That is for as long as the spell endures.

Off course one could always find funny scenes related to this: the horse simple being to calm to care about the rather raveneous wolfes hunting the horse and rider? - or what if the rider is on top of the horse when the spells comes to an end?

7

This strikes me as one of those things where either Rego or Muto could work, but in different ways.

Rego could affect a horse's emotions keeping it docile and easy to control, thereby over coming the negative affects of the Gift.

Muto could make a horse unnatural, and thus unaffected by the Gift.

I feel like they both should have minor differences in how they work, but am not seeing how I would apply it mechanically. (Other than perhaps inhibitting certain rolls or uses in the case of Rego.)

But then, I think it's very acceptable to have multiple means to achieve the same magical end.

8

You could just put your Parma around the horse...

9

Wasn't there something in a 4th Ed supplement about a travelling bunch of Criamon
who had horses that would accept a Mage (without the usual Gift penalties)?

10

The Covenant - predominant Criamon - of Semitae from Heirs to Merlin do breed horses indefferent to the gift, which the trade for vis or books and in Triamore there's a ReAn spell named Mages Mount that doesn't make the horse docile and fearless in general but makes it accepting of the Gift - both books are 4th ed.

11

Also exists in 5th ed.

True Lineages p. 122 ... the Tremere Diedne-hunters (Burning Acorn Vexillation) "... has developed a breed of partially-fae horse that does not react badly to Gifted riders, and can see in the dark. This line does not breed quite true, and the stallions have a vicious temper."