Hi , I am making the next spell:
The guideline is the "Understand the speaken words" and the duration is based upon "Trackless Step". What do you think?
The trouble with this is that the sense to be affected by Intellego is either Hearing (+3) or Vision (+4)
You are attempting to recreate Thoughts Within the Babble, but at a lower level. In my opinion, it's already as low as you can go.
Yes, but with taht spell you must make the spell one time and you understand anybody, this makes youn undestand one only person. It's pretty difficult make the spell to many person because this would require Concentration roll. On the same sense, i've seen one Intellego Corpus effect from one Magical Power from the Mushshusu on tC&tC, it's quite possible to think than that is not a great example, but again there are some Sight and Touch Intellego spells.
You are working with Intellego. Intellego spells generally affect the caster, and then targets are the senses affected. If you want to give other people the ability to understand you can use R:Touch (Eye isn't good here, because it requires maintaining eye contact, while not adding anything to the spell).
Let's deconstruct Thoughts Within Babble to see if I can explain it. R: Personal means it applies to the caster. D: Concentration is just that. Then T:Hearing, if you go back to 114 of the main rule book (for English, might be different) you'll note that The magical sense affected Hearing is +3 magnitudes to the spell. The spell only affects the caster, but it applies to all languages spoken. There is no T:Ind for Intellego spells. You have to pick a sense, and the one that corresponds to Individual is Taste, so I ask, how can one understand what is being spoken about with the T:Taste sense? Maybe if they are discussing food, or you designate certain concepts to have a taste, but that's a bit of a stretch, in my opinion. The only Targets that make sense are Vision or Hearing. Vision is harder.
Also, the spell necessary for another to understand you has to be R:Touch, which makes the level 5 levels higher and puts it in the Warping category of spells when cast on people it isn't designed for.
You can perfectly have "target:group" or other kind (part would be the most hard to justify).
See guidelines like "count numbers of people in target".
There are normal intellego guidelines, then there are the "improved senses" guidelines.
Thought within babble was designed as an improved sense, but nothing prevents you to use to use an individual version to understand all what a person says. More limited than thoughts within babble, and perfectly valid by rules.
Sight of the Transparent Motive, Perception of the Conflicting Motives, Frosty Breath of the Spoken Lie, Posing the Silent Question, and Peering into the Mortal Mind disagree with you.
Also the Range Eye doesn't require maintaining Eye contact, anymore than Touch requires staying in touch range.
The designed spell seems valid. I do note the concentration duration makes it hard to carry on a conversation however.
Very well, you have a point, there are canonical Intellego spells that do use non magical sense targets (I think they are or should be mistakes, but that's beyond the scope of this particular discussion).
However, I find this particular spell, to be an end run around Thoughts Within Babble, in that it allows the caster to impart the ability for a recipient to understand the conversation than he would normally be able to do so himself.
If Thoughts Within Babble can be done at a lower level, and can deliver information in a way other than T:Hearing, I'm open to listening. Keep in mind that it is expressly stated in the rules that some senses are better at delivering particular types of information than others. And without a (magical) sense, I'm having trouble envisioning how one actually understands what another is saying.
And they are pretty much all legacy spells. I'm aware of many spells violating this magical sense ruling, and I'm generally ok with canonical spells doing this, as they are examples of spells that break the Hermetic limits and were perhaps introduced by the Founders or someone else. That being said, if one designs a spell from scratch one should certainly be forced to use the Hermetic spell design guidelines. And while ExarKun and you are correct that there are spells that use T:Ind, they don't conform to the Intellego design principles laid out in the rule book.
Let me posit something. In a world where this spell is possible, what possible use does Thoughts Within Babble have? If you think the design is legit, I suggest changing Thoughts Within Babble to do what you want, rather than inventing another spell that is in many ways superior to the canonical spell.
Just like you get the knowledge in posing the
The same route as "posing the silent question". The magi simply learns what he wants to know.
Understanding everyone, and not just one person? Not needing to make eye contact?
Magic! [Flamboyant gestures and tone]
Yeah right about the opinions, truly this spell only Warps if the same person is afected about many times. This spell is more "information" or scrying efect, making the mind of the magi more readily to understand to the affected, like one Touch spell to read the somebody thoughts -magically he feel that.
Again, thanks for all the opinions.
I'm fine with magic. But take my later post to heart. It does something better than a canonical spell, and you should question why it is doing so.
I don't dispute that there are Intellego spells in the book that do not use magical senses. I think they are generally wrong, but that isn't here nor there. My point is primarily that this spell does something better than Thoughts Within Babble, and does it more cheaply (lower level), as well. If you have a Mentem or Intellego specialist with this spell in your saga, you've pretty much invalidated one of his major spells. If you haven't there isn't a foul, but it should still give you pause about designing a spell that works better than a canonical one. Adjust Thoughts Within the Babble instead, to do what you think it should be makes more sense than inventing this spell and leaving Thoughts Within Babble in play.
Ok. Let's say it is possible. The intended purpose of the spell is to "understand the [...] words while you maintain the conversation, making the social interaction easier. Let's say the caster casts this spell, it gives the ability for the caster to be understood to the individual with whom he is maintaining eye contact. The caster doesn't receive a similar benefit. The spell is only useful to tell someone something, and not actually conduct a conversation.
Edit: fixed botched quoting.
Once again it is not better. It gets the words of one person. Thoughts within the babble gets the words of many people.
No. It was every canonical core InMe except for one. And it isn't just legacy spells from the founders. (Or earlier editions.) Magi of Hermes has them. Familial Secrets p66 Tread of Fellow Travellers p66 Oath Breakers Confession pg 67. Doorframe of the wayward Steward page 68. Factor's Rollcall page 92. Funding the Blackmailers Purse pg 92 Identify the lecherous suitor pg 23 Thoughts Within Speech pg 30 Read Surface thoughts pg 34.
So, you agree, you cannot conduct a conversation with this spell, as designed, based on the text that outlines the desired effect.
The spell cast, as described allows the recipient who is in Eye contact with the magus to understand the magus, it does not allow the magus to understand the recipient of the spell with whom he has eye contact.
Spells which are designed with concentration to enable an activity generally do not make it more difficult to maintain the spell while conducting that activity.
Only talk with the objective is easy - again... when the conversation is over (Concentration check fails) you need re-cast the spell. Talk to another is harder. I was asking if somebody can think if the Trackless Step duration thinking could work too.