Hi! Barely back, crawling my way to the top of the list.
If applicable, this seems to me like the more sensible thing to do. Forego the extra year, and use the rules for mustering if you can.
IMO, this is used before.
You select virtues, and add the points, before adding XP. Likewise, when you get a supernatural ability, its score begins at 01, not +1. So there, his starting score in the sympathy would be 2.
I thought the discussion was that it was overpowered
When I think about it vs affinity and puissant, it is somethimes better, sometimes worse, although always easier to munchkin out: If you want the ultimate archer, a Sympathy with Wood is way, way better than either of the two.
Aside from Ennemies... There must be bad reputation social flaws that could to the trick, although I'm still too out of Ars Magica to remember much. Hum... Maybe infamous, with a reputation (true, or engineered by House Verditius) as thieves or something else?
You don't nescessarily need to bother, though: taking a story or character flaw doesn't mean "my character has that problem", but "I'm interested in stories related to that, please drag me out of the lab!", so if you want that in your background, you don't need to have a related flaw.
Yeah, the problem is that he “earns” no vis salary naturally during the creation process, so in order to have any BPs during the mustering out process I have to buy them with one-for-one with XP. Thus spending a year would give me 20 XP which translates into 20 BP to for the item.
Hmm, okay, that makes sense to me, although it’s not as beneficial
Ah, the virtue I was talking about was Venditor, NOT the faerie sympathy stuff. It’s a major virtue that basically gives you 50 xp (much like many of the minor virtues). The only potential difference is that it’s a social status virtue, and maybe Venditor’s are meant to be treated as a higher class.
Yeah, enemies was my thought, but I might just leave it in the background as you say.
When compared to the other Major Virtue social statuses, Venditor's underpowered-ness really stands out.
Redcaps - have all the rights and privileges of the Order, and gain an extra 75 experience during character creation (instead of the standard 15 exp per year, for their 15 year apprenticeship they have 300 xp instead of the 225 they would have gotten organically), and they start with 50 levels of magic items and gain 2 levels per year. Redcaps give up two seasons per year, but most consors do that anyway.
Landed Noble - "I'm kind of a big deal"
Magister in Artibus - gets the same time restriction as Redcaps, gains 240 bonus exp, and holds a station that universally garners respect and admiration.
HoHMC is pretty explicit that venditores enjoy no protections under the Code and have no protected status. Their entire reputation depends completely on the Verditius they serve.
It makes more sense to me that Venditor should be a minor virtue, without granting any bonus experience, but giving the character access to Academic abilities, Order of Hermes Lore, Code of Hermes, and maybe Finesse. It would then be a social status on par with Clerk, Failed Apprentice, Knight, Priest, etc...
Ok, I may be missing something, but is that year that much of a problem, then?
Ah, ok. I don't remember much about it. Reading what you say, it seems quite weak, though.
Thanks for the write up, ryu.
It seems that, roughly, 3xp = 1 level. You could have them start play with an extra 40 levels of enchanted item + 5 pawns of form vis, and gain 1 form vis per year as a result of their bargaining, to be trated for more items. They gain more per year than the redcaps, but do not enjoy the code's protection. This would also allow Prince to buy his item
Well, the Venditor lacks any protection under the Code of Hermes. But then, they can also essentially do their job without it cutting into their time. I'd say that makes it a pretty even balance. The Redcap gains extra experience for an apprenticeship; since a Venditor is not apprenticed, they should probably get paid better. I think a 10% cut of profits on sales is pretty fair, for a job that does not make a significant dent in their time, but I have no idea how to represent that by a virtue, when the time they spend as a Venditor is variable.
The idea was to make them wealthier than an individual redcap, but without the benefits of the apprenticeship or code, so their wealth may be stolen by an unscrupulous mage, for exemple.
They take a cut on all transactions (this is the 1 pawn per year they get), and thus (assuming 1 vis = 5 levels) receive more than a redcap would, but in vis. They must thereafter apply their skills to trade them for magic items, possibily to the verditius they're working for, or for magical items, or to feed a magical pet, whatever. They can also, in-game, get more on top of that, of course.
I had stupidly forgotten about the 50XP they get, that'd cut down the initial items they get from 40 to 30 levels. One could prefer for them to start with 55 levels instead of 30 + 5 pawns, but I think it differenciates them more that way, by showing their ressources and their origin.
While it's true that 1 pawn/year is more than Redcaps get (2 levels/year) from the virtue, the house rules also give them 28 pawns of vis per cycle (4/year) as a "salary".
That's quite high, almost as much as the magi. I can't see how to give more to the venditores without breaking the thing.
Although one could always grant them 150 levels of magical items per cycle, but you get the idea.
What bothers me is that this seems too close to the redcaps.
Let's say, per cycle (assuming 1 pawn = 3xp):
05 pawns
75 XP to spend on the skills outlined in the virtue's description
I have a revised system of Hermetic Economics I shall soon propose to the troupe. The ideas I am considering include...
Purchases may be made during Development, at the end of each cycle.
No penalty is assesses for Hermetic Age. Instead, a bonus is granted based on Youth.
A flat simple system for buying and selling is included, with an option to spend a Season to obtain a better deal (results based on standard formula similar to a Lab Total).
Options for consideration of mundane characters (Companions & Grogs) that may possibly earn and spend Hermetic Wealth, no longer requiring spending xp or requiring a magus character to gift them
The vis salary seems too high: Assuming 1 pawn = 5 levels, he gets 15 item levels per year. Even assuming it costs him twice as much to buy something, that's still 15 levels per 2 years, whereas a redcap gets only 4. I'd put it at 1 pawn per year. At worst, it's slightly better than redcaps, and at best, well, it's more than 2 times better.
Social contacts is a good idea, OTOH.
I'd cut it all a little down:
Access to Academic Abilities
50 xp towards Venditor skill list
Social Contacts virtue for free
40 levels of enchanted devices
5 pawns of vis
1 pawns vis salary/year
Must spend 1 season/year on venditor duties
They have no automatic LR and are not considered magi in respect for the code, but they get 1 more season per year than redcaps and more vis/items. The rest evens out, mostly.
Yeah, I think even 2p/y seems excessive, though 1 seems a bit stingy.
In gameplay I'd prefer salary be a flat 10%, rounded down on the margins of any sale they make. For purposes of representing previous work, maybe 10p/cycle.
That's an idea! Although it has little checks, so may go overboard.
Vulcanus creates an item, and [strike]negociate the sales price with stephanos[/strike] sets a price for it to be sold. Stephanus negociates with the seller. If he sells it for more, he gets to keep the change. If he sells it for less, he must reimburse Vulcanus.
I think you're missing something on what Redcaps get. From the merit, they get 2 item levels/year as you said. In addition, per house rule, they get a vis salary of 28 pawns per cycle, which basically gives them an additional 4 pawns/year (assuming a 7-year cycle). So a Redcap would get 19 item levels/year vice the proposed 15 of the Venditor.
I thought the discussion was that it was overpowered 
