Subscription is the way to go?

I agree, I think there's been some tangents in this thread based on the word "subscription" being used, and that raising red flags for some people.

But really the model Atlas is looking at is something closer to an ongoing crowd-funding venture or a standing pre-order than some of the subscription services that have been listed as negative examples.

As a "subscriber" you're essentially just indicating that you will buy each new supplement as it releases and in exchange you get a few perks like a 10% discount and slightly earlier access to the PDF.

The example of loot boxes etc. is closer to the mark, but it really then comes down to "do you think Atlas will start producing lower quality products once there is a solid base of subscribers?". Given the track record and the people involved I personally don't see that happening. This isn't a big faceless corporation - we know who will be responsible for quality, and we have a pretty good idea who some of the contributors might be. Very different situation because of that imo.

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i think there are two factors which drive down quality (in general) to things produced on a subscription basis- first they already have a commitment to get your money before the product is even out, and secondly the sheer pressure to produce a given quantity within a given time, an to do so constantly, which can wear on the authors.

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For the Feng Shui 2 subscription (that sparked this thread) you get informed when the book is ready and have the option to cancel before you're charged and the product ships. You don't pay in advance.

Likewise the subscription isn't for a fixed amount of content. There will be "no more than one product per month" with a goal of four books in 2021. Subscribers are only charged when a book is ready, so there isn't really any more time pressure than there would normally be if publishing the same books without the subscription.

You could maybe argue that there is some pressure because if the books get delayed repeatedly some people might cancel their subscription, but that's not the same kind of pressure as "these people have already paid we have to ship the book this month or refund them.".

Again, fair points about subscription models in general but I think the specifics of what Atlas are doing makes this mostly a non issue. Way less commitment on the part of both subscribers and content creators than what I think some people are picturing when they hear "subscription service".

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If what is being done is this different from a standard subscription service then perhaps it should be called something else- one more question here: if I sign up for the "subscription service", a book comes out that I don't like so I cancel, then can I re-sign up for the next book if it seems like something I want?

You'll get no argument from me on that front, this thread alone makes it pretty evident that calling it a "subscription" is giving at least some people the wrong idea. Fair enough, the website explains the details if you go look but if people see the name and discount it out of hand because of the word "subscription" before reading the details that's no good. Not sure what you would call it though.

I'd assume you can cancel and then start again for the next release, wouldn't seem like good business practice to block people for skipping a book. But I'm only going on the info from the Feng Shui subscription pages so I can't say for 100% certain.

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A pre-order sign up list?
Much more attractive to me than a subscription.

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I used to buy Pathfinder 1e products on the same basis, I signed up to buy them and unless I did something I would get each produce of interest to me sent out when it was published. There was an extra advantage there that it was a print and pdf line and I got the pdf free with the print product which would not be the case if I bought it in the shop. And in those long ago preBrexit days the pound to dollar conversion advantage saved me a fair bit even with shipping. That worked well for me. I only stopped because I was uninteresed in the new edition.

When the line was alive, they already produced a given quantity of products within a given time (four books a year if I recall correctly), and that was not a problem for anyone, nor impacted the quality in any way whatsoever. So I really don't see how this would be different. IMHO a non-issue.

In traditional subscription (which we have already covered that this is not) typical production expectation is 1/month. There is also a difference between a guideline and a deadline- I believe (not having been involved I could be wrong) that if a book was behind by a month or if only 3 books were produced in a given year there might be a decrease in productivity but there was no consequence of obligation- no contract which had been violated (at least by the company), and consequently less pressure to simply get something done with less than optimal performance.

I see your point, and I fully understand being concerned were the schedule something like a full book a month.

If you do a periodical, like a monthly subscription, there is no reason to aim for full books. An issue outlining one important canon covenant and/or one story hook could be worthwhile.

Stonehenge could be revised through one issue on the Hermetic politics, one on Blackthorn and Voluntas, one updating the Libellus starter story, and one on the Nigrasaxa story. No reason that all of this has to be bound together. At least not as far as I am concerned.

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Speaking of a tidbit here, a tidbit there, I have seen a couple companies use this method. Onyx Path for Exalted 3rd Edition has something called the Adversaries of the Righteous and the Hundred Devil's Night Parade. They are releasing antagonists and NPCs one at a time, and then eventually will bind them together as one book. (I am still waiting for this to happen, rather than buying 51 NPCs @ $2 per piece.)

Green Ronin did this for at least two Mutants and Masterminds products: Atlas of Earth Prime, and the Rogues Gallery.

I can see a subscription working well with say, getting chunks of a tribunal book over time, and then at the end it is compiled and sold as a full pdf/hardback. Maybe subscribers would get a discount of some kind.

Doesn't this sort of ... say everything about that approach?

I am not that worried about the full collection ever being compiled and bound. Quite the contrary. If the material exists in periodicals, it is much easier and less disruptive to make a new version of a flawed chapter.

And in the particular case of Stonehenge. I do not see much need to supersede the chapters on mundane society and history. Replace what needs to be replaced.

But that is of course easy for me to say, who have had the 4ed books on my shelf for 20 years.

Part of the reason why I do not see much problem with material being spread across issues of a periodical, is that we are already used to having to consult multiple 5ed books, not logically connected, to understand certain rulesets and settings. And many books already appear as antologies, like hooks and Hermetic Projects, where each chapter stands very well on its own.

Maybe, but as far as we know, it only says something about one potential (non-)customer. The only thing which is blatantly obvious from this thread is at different players would buy very different things.

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@Tellus, if I had bought these as they came out, I would have spent $2 to 4 a month for a year to 2 years, which is hardly onerous. It's just that I didn't and now I don't want to spend $102 on NPCs all at once. I will also counter that the Atlas of Earth Prime and Rogues Gallery were setup quite similarly, and now sell for $25 as a compiled PDF.

I agree with @loke that this thread is obviously full of different types of potential customers representing various cross sections of the hobby.

Anyways, I would quite happily spend $5 a month to get a tribunal book in bits and pieces over a year. Or through $50 as a pre-order. Or whatever. I have played this game since I was 12 in the mid 90s, and it has a very special place in my heart. Different Ars Magica players have different levels of investment (both emotional and $$) sunk into the game.

We do need to find ways to constantly widen the pool, but that's easier when we (in the community sense) are regularly making stuff.

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Don't call it a subscription then. Call it a pre-sale or crowd sourcing. Figure out a few books you want to produce at what price. Have a website where people can sign up and commit to buy some combination of the books. Which ever one gets the most interest would be your best bet to produce first.

Something like this, rather than any "subscription" model, would get my immediate commitment. Most likely I would sign up to buy all of the books offered.

If you are willing to actually do crowd sourcing, you could try that though you will find people more iffy there since many have been burned by failed projects. Not that I expect Atlas to fail, since this is very much something that that have been doing for decades. However I don't think you would want to give up the cut of funding required if you get a large enough commitment to buy the books through other means that you decide to produce them.

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If they want to do crowd sourcing it is going to require a very good editor who is both willing and able to get people to revise and sometimes kill their "sacred cows" in what they are writing in order to get the material to a higher level of quality and to make sure it meshes well with the current rules.

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I don't care what they call it so long as this awesome game is expanded.

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