1.) Yes mystery cults need to be in play to take advantage of talisman destruction, but ultimately as long as the magi doesn't put too much work into it, then not a huge deal. If you go this route (mystery cults or no), then the humble wooden staff is a great choice, as 8 pawns to open is something a young magi could afford (and handle) without too much difficulty.
2.) Well don't forget that there's a decent lab bonus for it being a talisman, which can tip the balance in the magus' favor and actually save them a season here or there. +5 is nothing to sneeze at.
3.) Yes, vis availability can be a problem, though 8 pawns for a wooden staff is IMO manageable in most sagas, and a couple utility enchantments probably won't fill all the spaces anyways, so it might be 12-14 pawns total. Obviously you've got competing interests for your vis (LR, familiar) but at least young magi can generally rely on books for advancement and save up their vis. I'm not really advocating making a talisman right out of apprenticeship, and arguably a familiar is more beneficial. But a lot of players fall into the trap of "well I need 30 years of study to do what I ideally want..." and I've seen sagas peter out long before players get to make their talisman or bind a familiar. These are cool things! Do them!
Talismans do have one advantage that other enchanted items do not which has not been covered in this thread. Their maximum total capacity for enchantment is determined by the Magus Arts and can be opened over multiple seasons.
Because of that having a very high initial opening capacity is not as important as it is for invested items. Getting as many possible components in a compound enchantment and making sure they have bonuses that are appropriate for the Magus magic specialty is far more important.
- You are absolutely right that for some magi, that's a good and manageable option. Not every magus is interested in the bonuses that the humble staff gives though.
- Yes, +5 is fine, but you can usually get as much or more from shape and material, and AFAIU the +5 talisman bonus is included in the bonuses capped by Magic Theory.
As it happens, in our saga, none of the five magi have created a talisman twelve years into the story. (Only two have bound familiars though two have some ambition to do it soon.) The main reason for this is that everybody focuses very much on reading arts first to improve lab totals, but it is also the case that it is far from obvious what talismans they would have wanted. My personal reason though, is that my magus is a rusticanus, so he can get the S&M bonuses without the talisman, and he is generally better off inventing spells for charged items than making enchantments.
You are of course right that arts first, gadgets since is a trap. It is rational to a point, but easily overdone. However a year of work to make a talisman with two enchantments is a lot if you want to replace it a decade later. That would be 10% of your work wasted, along with a rook of vis.
Where are you getting that from?
Bob
From generalising, apparently. Every other bonus from the item is included in that cap, and I have seen them as analogous. There is no specific ruling, so I am probably wrong then.
Not all other bonuses from the item are capped by MT. Examples: similar effect bonuses and dedicated vis.
People have left out some other useful things about Talismans:
- Incorporating Objects of Virtue.
- Maintaining the Demanding Spell (including Moon duration) at levels higher than 50. You still get to use the guideline for spells cast by you rather than by someone else.
- Extending your reach, which tends to be more situationally useful but can be quite useful.
It's also worth remembering that you can increase the bonus you get from attunements, though this must be done ahead of time without an appropriate Mystery:
- Experimental Philosophy can improve the material bonus by up to +3.
- Dedicated vis doubles the bonus.
- Parts from certain magical beasts can provide some very high bonuses.
- Mechanicals/Rusticani can somewhat arbitrarily add bonuses by putting the appropriate images on them.
Very true, but it's not that hard to find substitutes with a low vis cap. A gold ring is only 10 pawns, anything made of cloth or leather is quite cheap as well. And that +5 bonus isn't part of S&M bonuses, so it's VERY useful to a young magus.
Yeah I'm not suggesting replacing it a decade later, probably more like 30-40 years later. Once your arts have finally stabilized and you probably have the time and resources to really make the boom stick of your dreams. Then it's 2-3% of your work gone, and it was never wasted, just used appropriately.
And players are very often indecisive on their talisman because of the assumption that it's a 'forever' thing, that they'll have that talisman for their entire lives. But it's not hard to make a very useful thing quite early, especially given the advantages devices have in general and talismans in specific.
For extra fun, put a "lengthen stick" spell into your wooden staff. A variable length stick is useful all on its own, but on a talisman it's great fun.
And IIRC though the talisman is extending your reach, it doesn't work both ways, people touching the staff can't target you. And your talisman gets your MR and even retains your form bonuses when you're not touching it.
And another great thing about ye olde wooden stick is you can beat people with it, but it's not regarded as a serious weapon like a sword or mace would be. Travelers carrying a staff/walking stick don't stand out.
Yes, there is stuff like that, which is especially useful with Short-Ranged Magic. Whips already have a good reach.
There are other ways, too. For example, give your Talisman a ghost touch power with a lot of penetration so you can touch spirits without making your body directly touchable. Or, for example, you might encase yourself in your Talisman (think Ironman) and still be able to touch things. There are a whole bunch of ways this can work well situationally.
I'm not sure about the bidirectional part you say doesn't work, though. For Touch effects, you don't need to touch all of a target, just part of it, right? And your Talisman is a part of you when you're touching it. However, certain things wouldn't work through that even if Touch effects can; for example, crushing the end of the Talisman wouldn't crush your body nor your hand.
Can someone tell us where the rules for `dedicated vis' are?
p122 of RoP:M
RoP:M p.122-123.