Correspondence rules, for binding are a bit of a mess, if you ask me. Consider that correspondents get 1 XP per season over the course of writing back and forth for a season. Extrapolate that out to two years, it's 8 XP per correspondent. Combining those two sets of letters into one volume yields something that is possibly less or possibly greather than that? I find that troubling on multiple levels. Also, what happens to Good Teacher? The rules don't indiicate that, but it is consistent with the rules for writing Tractatus, which this is classified as. What if they both have Good Teacher, and high coms, and together they write a Q14 Tractatus (Com +4x2 + Good Teacher +3x2). Hmmm...
Another thing I find troubling is the possible Code isses of one correspondent publishing the volume of their letters. Hrm, might be a Tribunal issue in the future... You've been warned.
I like correspondence as a means of imparting a small amount of XP, and creating contacts with characters outside the covenant. The writing of letters thing is something I enjoy, but it is a lot of work. Oh, and if you find yourself waiting for a letter from me, PM me to remind me every now and again, include a link to the letter. The letters thing is a suprising amount of work. And I have a tendency to save it for odd hours.
The Fixer, in your case, since you're writing to another Character of yours, go ahead and answer yourself, sending me a PM of the message for approval, and I'll post it with any possible modifications. Make sense?
Yeah, the correspondence rules only work if you treat the rules as a sort of M-Theory. I mean, if you wanted to get really technical, we could figure out what the tractus WOULD be and then do some division but this is meant to be a game, not a science project. 1 XP reward for roleplaying is what we need to work, and it does.
Viscaria requested Ra'am pass her conversation on to another Bonisagus (who created the Lab Text that Ra'am learned the spell from) about Ambulatory Laboratory and supernatural denizens, which is mostly an excuse to create a new NPC Bonisagus for us to add to the world.
Thera wrote to the Quaesitors (sent to Proctor's office) to ask some obscure legal questions and start a conversation about Code of Hermes and how it applies to familiars. I think it'd be most humorous if some Guernicus's familiar replied back to her.
Given how much you're already juggling, what if you dealt with the correspondence thread saga-style? Get some of the other players to respond back, and then you can occasionally PM somebody with news they want to inject into their next letter?
How about we revise that to anyone can respond to any letter, but that the letters should be PM'ed to me first for approval, and I can add/tweak and update as necessary. Will that work for everyone?
People can take on who they'd like. I'm just asking fo the opportunity to vet/approve certain things. Correcting things after they are posted is difficult, and I don't like to edit someone else's words if it becomes necessary. I prefer giving them information and then they can present it as the character would. Letters are a technique for me to introduce things into the saga, and if I'm out of the loop, as it were, then it becomes more difficult for me.
Per pg 112 of the MRB and the errata, the circle itself takes 10 paces/rd to draw, and then the rest of the ceremonial chanting, inscribing and incense burning take place. Those concentration rolls are for casting a non-Ritual, or non-Ceremonial spell on a ring larger than 10 paces in circumference.
I'll also counter with Scribe the Perfect Circle, Re(Cr)Te 4, from TMRE pg 96, to create a perfect circle that I can trace without needing to concentrate. Which I can spont without fatigue or die roll. Of course, since I'm not a Numerologist, I can actually just do a ReTe 3 version of this.
I'm not sure why you're nit-picking on this point. It only provides "all the mundane information" about the plants, not its mystical properties, attributes or uses. It doesn't even tell me if it has any Shape/Material bonuses for enchanting. Nor have I actually asked for all that info, I just established that Viscaria had it in case it is ever important later, and then scrubbed out the ring. I later asked for the name of the tree, to be sure you has noticed me casting the spell.
Again, I disagree with your interpretation of the rules as it applies to ceremonially casting Circle/Ring spells, but I'm not interested in a pissing match over this. I just want Viscaria to cast a spell that allows her to recognize the next time she sees a tree of that type, and to be able to say things like, "Well, this one doesn't have any of those mushrooms, but it does still have the moss, and the birds nests are made of the same twigs...Hrm...."
This is actually higher in effect than the other similar effects which work on Wood and Metal which have an effect total of 19, I think I initially built it with a +1 Magnitude for a requisite, and then it get dropped but is still included in the cost. Let's see: Base 3 (though I saw there is some dispute on that) +2 Sub, level 5, +3 hearing level 20, +4 for the 2 uses per day and environmental trigger. Shriek of the Ominous Blade starts with a Base of 2. That's the difference.
Alright, I'm looking at the errata, and I don't see what you're seeing. If there is something that says that explicitly, please point it out to me. I also don't see anything where it's 30 seconds of tracing and then the rest of the time is chanting. Again, point it out to me, and give me a place to look.
The first sentence is what I'm basing my understanding on. A ring must actually be drawn while the spell is being cast. Try doing something like that for 45 minutes, IRL. Or even cast it magically, and then take 45 minutes to trace it out. The speed you cite is a maximum speed, indicating the maximum size of the circle. It is my belief that the time is the important factor here, if time weren't an issue, then size of the ring isn't an issue, either. I simply don't see anything indicating that non-ceremonial spells are exempt.
I'll counter that items belonging to a mystery cult should be there unless you're part of the mystery cult. Since that spell is described in the mysteries, I'm inclined to say that the base is off limits,too. Otherwise, what's the point of the MC?
It's not really nit-picking. I adjusted your target to be individual, I did this without your consent or without adequately indicating that. I apologize. We're now discussing what would happen if you switched it back to circle/ring. I'm telling you what I believe the rules indicate. If you can generate consensus on this with the other players, I'll allow it. Yes, I initially missed the spell, my mistake. Now that we're covering it, I'm indicating the problems I have with the spell, and I provided (forced) the spell to fit within more convential guidelines without a lot of problems. So either you know that it was ineffective on the tree, or you try and get information on all the other stuff. Besides, after Viscaria and Isen leave the clearing they're going to forget, just like everyone else has.
I think it's pretty fair, otherwise there's little downside to making it an actual formulaic spell. Ther are plenty of in play reasons for not taking 45 minutes of everyone else's time, or having them distract you during the process causing you to need concentration roles (maybe not 449). You can hear them through the portal, and they can see and hear you, when you're in the right position.
Again, if there's a consensus in your interpretation, or you can cite a specific place for me to find what you see, then I can be more descriptive.
Well it's a warning spell, so it would give a warning, it wouldn't repel, but kind of give him Spider Sense. So maybe the higher base would enhance the info so as not to make it trigger over benign stuff. We'll take a look at this, would you say that a Base 5 for InCo and then +1 more for the Animal Requisite would be a good start?
There's nothing in the description that indicates a magus must time the tracing of the circle such that the tracing of it must extend the entire casting duration; not only does this absurd interpretation prohibit all ceremonial casting of Circle/Ring spells, it also limits formulaic Circle/Ring spells to a maximum of 30' circumference.
Personally I would hate to see a precedent set which entirely removes ceremonially cast Circle/Ring spells from the game. The loss would be especially prohibitive to Mercurian magi, as then Circle/Ring spells are possible for them only formulaicly.
Besides the concentration requirement becoming absolutely ludicrous, I offer that making the tracing extend precisely through the entire casting duration, also makes it near impossible for any magus, even for a formulaic spell with an appropriately small circumference. As a pakua practitioner, I've spent years of my life perfecting the art of WALKING AROUND IN A CIRCLE. And in my professional opinion, trying to place precisely eight steps in a relatively small circle is ridiculously hard; thus I posit that it would be impossible to A) calculate the amount of steps it takes to trace a circle larger than 10' diameter, based on caster leg-length, B) calculate out the precise length each step must be, C) calculate the exact amount of time one must spend on each step, and D) execute that plan to within any reasonable margin of error.
The whole idea is so patently risible I can't believe I actually made a serious response to it.
Yeah, continuing this debate interests me not at all. I will simply note your preference regarding the rules surrounding ceremonial ring/circle castings. This seems to be pretty clearly a matter of differing rules interpretation of the same passages.
See, this is the missing piece of the puzzle for me. I thought it was a different tree than that one, just of the same species. You could have just said, "You collect all that information, but forget about it when you leave the clearing."
Well, but your rulings would still apply to a formulaic spell. The point of the Concentration roll is so that magi don't try to draw huge circles, not to prevent them from casting circle/rings ceremonially. ~shrug~ Whatever.
Seriously, whatever? Are we teenagers, all of a sudden? I asked for you to clarify where you were pulling your interpretation from, if it's something I'm overlooking,
You don't want to argue it, great, I don't want to argue it, either. I do, however, want to find the right answer. I see time as being the main issue based on my interpretation of the rules, if time isn't an issue, and it is only size, then there is no issue. That being said, does everyone's character want to wait around for 45 minutes while Viscaria casts the spell. Are some concentration rolls still in order, for her to keep from hearing other people talking for the next 45 minutes? Again, my issue is with time, as the size of the ring is a function of time. If someone can cast a spell ceremonially, taking all the time in the world, why can't someone else cast a ring that would take as long as the ceremonial casting? Isn't that a fair question to ask?
And to be clear, there are different trees, several different trees. I use the same picture, perhaps I need to pull out some others. Maybe spending some time with a person who lives in the woods would be in order...
I think that my current reaction to this conversation would indeed be classified as "juvenile," which is why I am attempting to bow out of it until I grow the fuck up again.
To my mind, the point of the concentration rolls is to prevent people from making abnormally large circles. The rules, according to my interpretation, suggest that formulaic spells used on idiotically large targets require those concentration rolls. My opinion of those rules and their purpose is colored by various tiny pieces of the game system from across several different books. You are reading the exact same set of rules, and seeing an interaction with Ceremonial Casting and Ritual casting times which I do not believe exists within the text, nor within the intent of the authors.
Whereas I think the main issue is "whether or not the player is trying to be abusive with the ring/circle effects to get a Room or larger at lower cost?" And since I was making jokes about learning ALL the mundane information, I interpreted your rules adjudication as a way of you saying, mechanically, "Don't be a dick, amul." I reacted poorly and irrationally to that.
I chose to do the ceremonial casting from the assumption that I was now lost in the woods and unable to get back to the rest of the adventuring party that day. I was pretty surprised when you said that I could make it back in a few hours, but wasn't going to press the issue because Viscaria has no wilderness abilities, which means she would have made the same assumptions that I did.
Well, let me put this another way: If normal ceremonial casting does not require a ring, or the concentration rolls to draw one, then what takes up that time, and what happens to those activities during your "I spend 45 minutes drawing a ring" version of the rules?
Nope, that's good to know.
Hey, this conversation is now in a separate thread. Can we move on with the game please? Viscaria casts a bunch of spells, then forgets all about those answers when she gets far enough away from the tree.
I need you to be explicit about what this memory lapse covers, though. Does she remember the portal? If not, how does she account for being in the regio caves one minute and then having to spend several hours walking through the woods?
Try not to make assumptions. Ask questions. Make your points. I may toss off something quickly while I'm at work avoiding something or distracted by dozens of other things. I may be completely wrong. I may make an overly strict interpretation. I am not above admitting I'm wrong.
You said to me a whole back story is the key. Had I not missed the spell in the first place, this would've unfolded differently. My interest was in having you fall through the portal because of your botch. Not in derailing the story entirely. Right no Viscaria is on the drivers seat with a 45 minute spell. How should everyone else cool their heels. I can't imagine Isen is any more patient than Heims was when Ra'am suggested a 45 minute spell...
Well, yes, communication is always the key, but at the same time, this is a PbP, not a weekly gaming session. One advantage of that difference is that I can back off and wait until I'm calm before returning to an issue. If I say, "I don't want to argue about this," that's me saying that I am feeling argumentative about it, and want to take some time to calm down before returning to it. Since you can't read my body language or tonality, I need you to be respectful of those decisions.
It might be better, though, if I write to someone else, possibily someone played by another player.
I didn't understood very well how it worked
Yes, although this'll mean a lot of work for you
I may be wrong, but I always took it that, for ceremonial casting, you didn't spend all the time drawing the ring.
You may inscribe it, sure, write down runes, contemplate how you're gonna do things, chant down incantations... and, at some point, you follow the ring's circonference, making the nescessary rolls (which is what's important), but you don't need to do them for 45 minutes.
For all I know, you could very well spend the entire time contemplating the effect, and cast it in a round.
Isn't there an exemple of this in HoH: S?
I'm not sure his spell would be very usefull, given the mass of information it'd give.
I mean, sometimes, you're better not trying some things. Unless than, the more info you try to get, the more general it becomes?
Thing is, Isen would surely not wait around 45 minutes for her to finish, HE would surely need a lot of concentration rolls, but, as far as I can see, this is legit.
Forget what???
(despite my MR 59 versus Mentem? Shudder)
Absolutely.
I'd like to check and make sure base 5 wasn't too high, but I can't.
Serf's parma, but this is how I understand things.
The number of concentration rolls is based on the time you need to "activate" the ring by following it, which is based on its circumference.
Your interpretation would mean that it'd be easier for a gauntleted magus to spontcast a big circle spell than for an expericenced magus to carefully, ceremoniously, cast a little one. I don't think this is good, nor what the authors intended.
Shudder)