Table Talk - Development

Indeed it does. Changes more than a few spells I have plans for! Excellent.

Some of Constantine's custom spells, many are just in planning stages.

Thoughts From Babble (Creo Mentem / Muto 15)
R: Voice, D: Diameter, T: Individual. This spell allows the caster to speak directly into the mind of the target, and also alters the memory of the target so they remember that the caster speaking normally, and in their native language.
(Base 3 for words, +2 Voice, +1 Diameter, +1 Req Muto sub effect)

Whispering Thoughts (Creo Mentem 5)
R: Touch, D: Diameter, T: Individual. This spell lets the caster speak directly into the targets mind.
(Base 3, +1 Touch, +1 Diameter)

The Long Forgotten Stare (ReMe30)
(Base 15 to paralyse a target mentally, +1 Eye, +1 Conc, +1 Pe sub-effect so they don't remember anything)

Drawing the Truth From the Dead (In Me 35),
Reworked Posing the Silent Question, to be cast upon Mentem creatures (ghosts and spirits).

Peering into the Unresting Mind (In Me 45)
Reworked Peering into the Mortal mind, to be cast upon Mentem creatures (ghosts and spirits).

Compel the Malevolent Deed (ReMe45)
(Base 20, +2 Voice, +3 Moon) Gives a complex command to the target which they must obey.

Spy Though the Intangible Tunnel (InIm10)
See and hear through an OTIT effect.

Conjuration of the Insubstantial Fleeting Blindfold (CrIm5)
Creates an image of a solid blindfold on the target which moves with them, blinding them.

Rise Before Dawn (ReMe15)
(Base 4 change mental state. +1 Touch. +2 Sun. Ind) Target is woken at a time specified wen the spell is cast, within the spells duration. i.e. Ten minutes before dawn.

[b]The Diligent Sentry/b
Keep a target from falling asleep. There is an effect for this in one of the sourcebooks, but i can't find it at present.

Spirits Eternal Oblivion (PeVi Gen)
Reworking of DEO for spirits and ghosts.

[b]The Arcane Boon Unwillingly Given /b
Gather an AC from the target.

[b]The Arcane Boon Utterly Destroyed /b
Identify and destroy AC material from the caster around them.

Eyes and Ears Within (InIm25)
Listen to all the activity in a Structure.

Subsume the Irritating Knave (MuTe10)
Sink a target into the earth.

Sense the Beast's Vector and Sense the Miscellanea's Vector (InAn5)(InTe5)
Spells to find the direction and distance to a target for which you have an AC.

Searing Burn (CrIg10)
Simple +5 damage, over Diameter duration.

That seems an awfully good effect for just a +1 Req Muto addition.

Touch range seems a bit odd. But it's legit.

Again, that seems a very good effect for just a +1 Perdo addition.

Can that really only be level 10?

That seems an awfully low level for that effect.

Can effects be delayed like that? And can they have specific triggers like 10 minutes before dawn?

Wouldn't that be a PeMe effect?

I'd like to see the numbers on this one.

Not sure how you do both in one spell.

The babble could be deafening.

That seems awfully low level for that effect.

What are the particulars of this spell? Duration, etc.

I'm not sure if that would work. I've never seen DOT spells in ArM5

With so many effects, do you want these in a separate thread going forward?

I started with Creo Mentem for creating words, which is CrMe base 3. Then added a Muto Mentem "change a minor detail" is Base:1, so it seemed appropriate to use the Creo Mentem as the main effect, and add +1 Mag for the sub-Muto effect. Even if written up fully the MuMe effect would only be level 4 total, so it is certainly a very minor sub-ability that is needed to make the interaction of the spell work. Note too that the change in memory only lasts as long as the spell itself too, so it is possible that the target will suspect something is odd afterward. It also does not help at all if other people are around the target.

For use when an Intangible Tunnel is in place to the target, and I wish to speak to the target without anyone at the other end hearing. Good for grogs.

If a Range:Sight spell can also affect a target through a tunnel (normally touch) then I don't need this spell, I'll just modify the normal CrMe spell in the core rules. I'm not sure of what is allowed in terms of requiring Touch effects with OTIT.

The Perdo Mentem guideline is only level 10. I thought the "layering" of effects added +1 for small effects and +2 for major, and more powerful effects probably are not allowed.

As I've used it before: Intellego Imaginem 10, R: Touch, D: Conc, T: Room
The caster can see and hear what is occurring through an Intangible Tunnel (which requires range touch).
(Base 2 to use two senses, +1 Touch, +1 Conc, +2 Room)

(Base 1 to create an image that affects a single sense, +2 Voice, +1 Diameter, +1 for an image which moves with the target)
One of the best blinding spells I've seen, credit to the guys on the Online Grimoire for the idea.

The effect isn't actually being delayed, just that part of the effect is noticeable far later in it's overall duration. The mind is under the ReMe effect. Think of the spell as playing a song over the entire duration, but the song has it's volume turned up at the last moment. The spell is still active on the target, and cannot be altered after the casting.

As I understand it the spell delaying rules don't allow a spell to change situationally from a stimulus without a caster doing it, and the spells must be active on the target for the entire duration. Happy to add a Mag for "complexity" or "special Duration" if you prefer.

Could be either PeMe or PeVi. PeMe limits the use to ghosts/spirits that are linked to the Magical realm. Same way that PeVi is still used for magical creatures, fae creatures, etc.

If you prefer I'll take it as PeMe, but then it should affect any type of Ghost, meaning Fae ghosts, Demonic ghosts, magical ghosts... Actually that's better anyway.

Fair enough, its an idea at present. It is the same base effect as Licking the Blade (ReCo40) from HP p87. I think its something like this:
R: Voice, D: Momentary, T: Part. (Base 10 teleport effect range 5 paces, +2 Voice, +1 Part).
The difference is that I think I need T:Part on this spell instead of T:Ind to take it directly from the subject, and the base effect is far lower as it only works at close range. The Licking the Blade spell from HP works at Range:Sight (+3) and up to 1 league away (base 25), which is why its so much higher. I figured I'd just walk up to the target instead.

OK, Will need to be one spells to perceive any materials, then another to destroy it all. I'll split it up into two effects.

Yep, it could be loud. Or very useful during the quiet times. I'm not sure I'll take this one, or invent it another way so that it queries the minds of the targets directly about a question. I might reinvent "Posing the Silent Question" on Groups and Structures instead.

My rationale is: (Base 3 to change dirt in to another substance such as liquid, and include an Auram requisite, +2 Voice, +1 Part). I wrote it up previously as:

This spell alters the ground within the target area so that it is briefly transformed into air, and then quickly back again. Anything within the target area will fall as they lack the foundation of the earth. The spell will affect mud, sand, and dirt, and anything upon these surfaces will be quickly buried and also potentially wreck a buildings stability.

If the spell is targeted beneath a specific spot, such as beneath a particular person a targeting roll is required. The effect is designed to create a cubic area, with a volume of 10 cubic paces of earth (roughly 2.2 paces per side).

A copy of the Sense the Lodestone (InCo5) HP p84, redone to target misc objects, and then again for animals. It gives distance and direction.
(Base 3, +1 Touch, +1 Concentration)

The Ignem DoT spell from Ars Core is: Coat of Flame, p140
(CrIg25, Base 2, +2 Voice, +2 Diameter, +1 Rego) which inflicts +5 damage, and must be soaked 20 times over the diameter duration.

Thoughts From Babble
Ah, if it only has that effect during the spell casting that makes more sense.

Whispering Thoughts
Using it with Intangible Tunnel is a neat idea.

The Long Forgotten Stare
I'll have to look into that one.

Spy Though the Intangible Tunnel
I guess that does work.

Conjuration of the Insubstantial Fleeting Blindfold
That still seems like it ought to be more costly.

Rise Before Dawn
I'm still not sure you can have a trigger be a time other than sunset/sunrise. How does the spell know it's 10 minutes until sunrise?

The Arcane Boon Unwillingly Given
I suppose since you still need to get through Parma to effect another magus, it's not that bad.

Subsume the Irritating Knave
Ah, so it's smaller than Pit of Gaping Earth, and so needs a targeting roll. That makes a difference.

Sense the Beast's Vector and Sense the Miscellanea's Vector
Should that be Touch range or AC range? I had thought it had to be AC range for what you're trying to do.

Searing Burn
Serves me right for never playing a Flambeau. But how do you get it down from level 25 to level 10?

Its a tricky use of Im magic but I think it is legit. My rationale is:* I can create an image of a cup as Base 1 to create an illusion that affects one sense. I can also create an image of a cup over another smaller cup as Base 1 as well; this is another way to hide or block something.

  • The image has to move so I applied a +1 mag to move with the target, even though I really don't think that is needed either. i.e. My magus can create an illusion that he is wearing armour and not pay for a moving image. However it seems like there should be a +1 there somewhere to adjust for tracking with the target.
  • The image is small, so doesn't need additional mags for size.
  • It is very simple black blindfold, so complexity and no Finesse roll for how nice it looks.
  • Then it's just the R:Voice, D: Diameter mods as normal, which I've kept low so I can cast this at spell casters or monsters and have a hope of affecting them.

Good point; spells don't have brains, but they do have access to the caster's mind or the target's mind. Would you allow an Intellego req/sub effect to be added (+1) so the spell checks how long till the nominated time, then counts diameters down to the moment?

I'm going from the Lodestone effect in Hermetic Projects and changing the target type. This is to be used with the Intangible Tunnel, which is why it can be at R: Touch, and not R: Arc. Sorry I should have made that clear.

I didn't reduce from that spell, but built from base, although it works out the same: (base 4 to create fire doing +5 damage, +1 Touch, +1 Diameter).
Interesting too that this spell will harm the caster in the same manner if it is not cast with an Intangible Tunnel, as the tunnel separates the caster from the target.
I've got a DoT based effect in mind for one of Constantine's magic items too. The major downside of DoT spells is you can't cancel them easily, so they tend to kill eventually, there is not a lot of middle ground.

Bumping this question on Familiar advancement. Are we using the Might penalty to all xp?

I'm of two minds on this. One thing is certain, though. taking off the Might penalty will have the potential to make familiars a lot, lot more powerful.

What does the troupe think on this issue?

This is a bit of an odd situation- the rules for awakening were written before ROP:M, and indicate that the animal has no powers on awakening, that they can either be given powers or bound as a familiar. In theory this could simply mean no powers based qualities, or it could mean the familiar requires learning qualities and starts with none. In either case it starts with only the abilities of a normal monkey, aside from the fact that it has might and intelligence instead of cunning. How I will proceed onwards will depend on the ruling you make for that... I am thinking that at 5xp per season not spent working with the mage it would be able to get a minor quality every 2 seasons or a major one every 6, at least until it's might level is filled...

The might penalty is in place for a good reason and I think we ought to keep it, although a familiar studying with their mage is a good exception. Beyond that, I'd say let them learn as they can.

If people do advocate for an abstracted method, it will mean familiars will be very powerful in other ways, like season after season improving your lab. The magi would only get exposure, but since the familiar is getting 5 xp per season regardless..... This would result in weaker familiars but amazing labs. Just depends on what trade off you want.

That seems fair to me.

You make a good point. I think I will keep the Might penalty (but with the studying-with-magus exception).

But are people going to want to map out five-ish cycles of familiar advancement after doing six cycles of magus/maga advancement? That was one reason I was looking at just abstracting familiar learning.

I would prefer abstraction.

It looks to me like you have just decided the question both ways- will Ook have 5xp/season net that he can advance with? If so is it limited to 'growing into' his might score? (at which point he would have 20xp/season gross with 25 might...)?

I'd prefer abstract for familiars and same for apprentices, etc.

I'm not sure I understand why he would have 20 xp/season. The abstracted amount wouldn't grow.

Also, I didn't get an answer before. Are you planning on keeping Ook's might at 25 or were you looking at trying to 'buy down' his Might to pay for Qualities?

As to your proposal to buy Qualities, if I understand it properly, you were looking at spending seasons to transfer Might into Qualities, do I have that right?

OK, looks like the troupe favors abstraction for non-master study; confirm the familiars can still take actions such as improving labs, writing, or anything else they might need?

Familiars can take other actions, such as writing or teaching, or the like. But I'm not sure how a familiar improves a lab. Please explain.

They need to have Magic Theory at 3+, and be able to physically operate, such as human form or Hands of the Magical Animal Quality. If they meet those then they can work just like any other lab assistant, including installing virtues/flaws. This may conflict with highly refined labs, I seem to recall something to that effect, but am hazy on the details.

I never had plans to buy down his might, I'm not sure where you got this for a what I was proposing.
Normally a character with 25 might can have a net 25 points in qualities, a character with 15 might ca have 15 net points in qualities, etc. However the mystery of awakening an animal specifically states that it does not have any powers to start with. As I see it there are a few different ways to approach this, which break down into two separate issues
Issue 1: he can start with qualities, just not powers- if he can, this can fill up some of the potential for where might can be "filled" with non-power qualities
Issue 2: does he get experience? If he does, he can learn qualities at 10xp per point, which would allow him to begin developing those qualities.

Now related to point 2 is the abstraction of all familiars getting 5xp/season. Some sources indicate that once bound as a familiar there is no might penalty for learning, ever, in which case 5xp is 5 xp. Some people however, believe there should be a penalty if the magus is not involved in the learning, in which case 5xp net without a magus for a might 15 familiar is an original SQ of 20, which would be squat for my familiar.

One option I have proposed is allowing him to accumulate 5xp per season he is not learning with Meliai for a maximum of 50 seasons, which would be 25 points in qualities, and they can only be applied to gaining qualities.
Using the awakening animal did net me a familiar with greater might, but it is also effectively a spring familiar, not summer, only having abilities that the beast itself would have before being awakened. Trading power for abilities only applies to character creation of magical characters, it is not something that is described in their development. I need to know if it will require massive amounts of vis for my familiar to be equivalent to what everyon else wil get in addition to the vis and initiation time spent making him into a magical being.