Table Talk - Development

I don't feel need to entirely redo my character just to please the pecadillo of one person. As it happened, I did go back and redo her, but I did it because of what I felt was fair, not because you can't be troubled to overcome your difficulties in "understanding".


I realized after posting her that I did do one thing wrong in the character creation: I gave her three extra years between early childhood and apprenticeship, but of the 60 points I had to spend for that period, only 30 went to eligible (General) Abilities. Let's just say she had the normal 15-year apprenticeship but learned more than the average apprentice.


YES! That is exactly what Antonio would do. Personally, he thinks that the KoS are a whack pseudo mystery cult, and he became Grandmaster because that was the easiest way to get them to chill. He will of course play up the drama, make new members feel the weight of tradition, make it all grander than life. Most of the KoS are not at Andorra, but this is indeed a major portion of their history and culture. Fuego filius Vanacastium is much older, but he lacks the charisma and leadership qualities of Antonio (and Fuego is getting to old to be an effective leader anyway).

As far as making a combat magus, for your first outing, you did an excellent job. I need to examine it closer later at home, but you seem to have a good handle on it. My next favorite House, believe it or not, is Jerbiton. Mainly because, rather than seeing themselves as wizards interacting with mundane people, they see themselves as people who happen to be wizards. Same goes for your character; magic is not who you are, its what you do. You got that part nailed. I will look it over closer later, but I wanna give you kudos :slight_smile:

Aren’t we just a busy little forum? In any case:

Viola looks great to me, and I’m excited to meet her. I’m glad she’s getting a 5th Edition audit, though. I think the issue here is that part of the fun of the game for me (and, I suspect, many here) is finding a way to express what I want within the bounds of the rules. If we’re not playing by the same rules, that makes it less fun, because that means we’re not all playing the same game – there is absolutely nothing personal about it.

I think we’re all mature enough not to abuse our power; it’s the way that power was accumulated is a really fun part of the game for some people, and if we’re not all doing it the same way, that’s lessened. That’s where I see some of these reactions coming from. We’re all compromising, which is great!

Nope. Not me, anyway. How boring would that be? I’d much rather be a little younger and lend verisimilitude that we developed organically.

Scott :smiley:

Your Berklist background is an asset at times, as it makes you resilliant (they bash on each other over there). It seems the troupe basically approves of Viola.

People should realize that anything on her sheet that is sketchy was my own doing. I approved of it. She is vanilla with a hint of cinimon. She has a slightly retro aspect, which was my doing, but I would like to see Scott run with it and get some feild data from my invention (the Innate Spontaneous Magic Virtue).

And yes, everyone should be all different ages.

First years of my planned character (no hands). Feedback is welcome. I still have to get her to Andorra and join that covenant.

Marie Noris filia Amelie, ex Tytalus (right after spprenticeship)
Characteristics: Int 2, Per 0, Str -3, Sta 2, Pre 0, Com 0, Dex 1, Qik 3
Size: 0
Age: 23
Decrepitude: 0
Warping Score: 0
Confidence Score: 2(5)
Virtues and Flaws: The Gift; Hermetic Maga; Flawless Magic, Major Magical Focus (Telekinesis); Affinity with finesse, Affinity with Rego, Cautious sorcerer, Puissant Finesse, Puissant Rego, *self-confident, Subtle Magic; Greater Malediction: No hands, Major Driven (Getting her Hands back); Ability Block Martial, clumsy, disfigured, mentor
Personality Traits: crafty +3, self-reliant +2, brave+2
Reputations: -

Weapon/Attack Init Atk Dfn Dam
Kick* +2 +1 +2 -1

  • three extra botch dice (untrained)
    Soak: +2
    Fatigue Levels: OK, 0, -1, -3, -5, Unconscious
    Wound Penalties: -1 (1-5), -3 (6-10), -5 (11-15), Incapacitated (16-20), Dead (21+)
    Abilities: Area Lore Central Germany (geography) 1, Area Lore Nuremberg (hiding places) 1, Artes Liberales (Astronmy) 2 [Latin, Arabic Alphabet], Athletics 1 (running)
    Awareness (alertness) 1, Bargain (old men) 2, Charming (Merchants) 1, Code of Hermes (Fairies) 2, Concentration (sounds) 1(1), Etiquette (merchants) 2, Fairie Lore (deals) 2, Finesse (telekinesis) 2 +2, Folk Ken (townsfolk) 2, Guile (discover lies) 2, Latin (Hermetic) 4(5), Magic Theory 4, Order of Hermes Lore (Merinita) 1(1), Parma Magica (Mentem) 1(7), Penetration (Rego) 1(6), Profession Scribe (carefully) 2, Stealth (sneaking) 1, Survival (urban) 1
    Arts: Cr 2, In 6, Mu 6, Pe 6, Re 16+3, An 1, Aq 1, Au 0, Co 6, He 6, Ig 6, Im 6, Me 2, Te 6, Vi 6 (please put any experience points not yet spent in parentheses after the Art score)
    Twilight Scars:
    Equipment: Wizard's robes, belt with pouches and knife
    Encumbrance: 0 (0)
    Spells Known (Mastery not included in casting totals):
    • The Earth split asunder (ReTe 30) +32, Mastery 1: Multiple Casting
    • Disguise of the Transformed Image (MuIm 15) +18, Mastery 1: Quiet Casting
    • Leap of homecoming (ReCo35) +32, Mastery 1: fast casting
    • The Unseen porter (ReTe10) +38, Mastery 1: Quiet Casting
    • The treacherous Weapon: ReTe(He) +38, Mastery 1: Multiple Casting; (like "The Treacherous Spear (ReHe25), but also for metal weapons)
    • Vision of Heat's Light (InIg20) +18, Mastery 1: Penetration
    • Unseen Arm (ReTe5) +38 Mastery 1: Multiple Casting
    • Wizard's Sidestep (ReIm10) +32, Mastery 1: Fast Casting
    • Call to Slumber (ReMe10) +32, Mastery 1: Penetration

Sigil: unseen hands seem to be involved

Creation Notes:
Marie was apprenticed at Fengheld (Rhine). Fengheld's library is based on ArM5 covenants for a powerful covenant. Her mistress' skills are a realistic guess (source quality 11, later 12, due to exposure to teaching). The resulting character has 306 (361) skill xp, 268 (313) Arts xp, and knows 180 levels of spells, for a total of 755 xp right after apprenticeship (number in brackets because of Virtue bonus xp), which is an average of 11xp/season, even though she had half of the seasons for exposure only.
I will end up with a 10xp/season character, because she won't get as much reading time and more traveling/lab time from now on. I also plan on giving her a second personality flaw: Intolerant: (disabled) beggars and a minor magical focus in certamen (to fight off the bullies) over the coming seasons

Description and Background:
Marie Noris loses her hands in a fairie deal when she is 9 years old in the Maddenhofen Woods, thereby freeing her Mistress from a cruel fairy curse. Mistress Amelie, gratefully takes up the challenge of teaching a seemingly useless apprentice. Because of Marie's special situation, she must use magic all the time, which makes her an expert in Rego, finesse, and lead to nearly botch-free style of magic.
She joins the knights of Seneca, because her mistress had a vision that hinted that Marie's fighting together with the "Knights of Seneca" might eventually lead to restoring her hands. Not that she needs them anymore, but it's a bit of vanity.

Early childhood (first 5 years):
Little Marie realizes early that her brother is more popular than she is. She starts to invent stories about her brother and recounts his misdeeds to her parents gleefully, but everyone still prefers him, rather than the tooth-gapped little telltale.
Native Language German (Franconian) 5
Athletics 1 (running)
Guile 2 (discover lies)
Folk Ken 2 (townsfolk)
Survival (urban) 1
Awareness (alertness) 1
Stealth (sneaking) 1

Childhood: Nuremberg shopkeeper/trader family
Year 6, winter: She capers through the city (5 practice xp). Area Lore Nuremberg (hiding places) 1
Year 6, spring: A neighbour complains. Her mother thinks it best to teach (11xp) her some Etiquette (merchants) 1(6). Marie loves to spend so much time with her mum and tries to be on her best behaviour.
Year 6, summer and Fall: Her mother keeps a close eye on her and her behaviour (4 xp exposure). Marie is bored. Etiquette 2

Year 7, winter: Mary wants to work like the grown-ups so she becomes even more useful, and gets more of her mother's attention. So she spends a lot of time in her parents' shop trying to be charming to the customers (practice: 5xp). Charming (Merchants) 1. The customers do not always react as favourably as she hoped, but they almost treat her like any other person, which is at least something.
Year 7, spring and summer: Mary spends her time in the shop, observing how her mother Bargains (4 xp exposure), flirting with the old men at the same time. Bargain (old men) 0(4)
Year 7, fall: Marie's father, seeing her interest in trading, teaches her for a season (11xp).
Bargain (old men) 2.

Year 8, winter: An incredibly beautiful and regal woman enters the shop. She surely is an Angel of the Lord, because she orders Marie's parents to send their girl to a nunnery with her. They accept! Marie is happy to become a nun. They walk to the nunnery together (5 xp area lore exposure): The angel says it is far away and that she has to disguise herself as a normal woman: Area Lore Central Germany (geography) 1.
8, spring: Marie finds out: The angel isn't an angel, but a maga! But still, her Mistress is beautiful and can teach her mighty magic. She also says that magic is not of the Devil and she spends a full season with Marie introducing her to the 15 Arts of Magic. Her way of teaching is often hard, sometimes even cruel, but Marie loves it anyway, because she idolizes her Mistress.
8, summer: Mistress Amelie has important business to do, so she hands Marie to a hired teacher, Ali the Arabian, who teaches her the basics of the Academic Canon, including the Latin and the Arabic Alphabet (15xp), with a special focus on Astronomy. Artes Liberales (Astronmy) 2. Mary likes the strange way he smells (he washes himself daily!).
8, Fall: Amelie sets an "easy" task for Marie. She gives her a list of new words every day, which she must learn. She gets one word on the first day, two words on the second day, three words on the third day, and so on. Each evening, she must repeat the words to her mistress and gets her food only if she knows them all: After one season, Marie knows over 4000 Latin words (pracice 5xp). She knows Latin (Hermetic) 1.

Year 9, winter: Ali teaches Marie some more Latin (15xp). The grammar he teaches is very useful for forming sentences. Latin (Hermetic) 2(5). Marie is forbidden to speak German.
Year 9, spring: Marie practices speaking Latin (8xp) with the more educated people at Fengheld. It is rather frustrating to be unable to communicate correctly, and she feels she's not making any progress. 2(13)
Year 9, summer: Amelie knows she has to teach a season herself, so she teaches her apprentice some more Latin (11xp). Marie enjoys the proximity of her Mistress and learns eagerly. Latin 3(10).
Year 9, fall: Mistress Amelie travels into the Maddenhofen Woods with her apprentice to collect fairie Vis there. Her arrogance ends with the Fairie Queen turning Amelie into a woodlouse. But the Queen is (or pretends to be) moved by the tears of the innocent apprentice and asks why she cries for a mistress so obviously worthless. Marie answers: "Amelie steered my hand in my magic training and without her it's no use!" The fairy queen returns Amelie to her human form, but obviously Amelie of Tytalus still thinks she is a woodlouse because she just holds Amelies hands and eats a handful of dry leaves. So Marie protests again: "I want her back the way she was, whole in body and mind. She's just holding my hand – it's no use!" When she says this, the fairy queen smiles and says: "Deal!" Amelie is restored, but much to Marie's horror, both of her hands fall off.
Amelie and Marie flee the woods. It turns out that normal spells can't heal Marie's hands In a vision it is revealed to Amelie that only if Marie fights along the "Knights of Seneca", she will ever have a chance of getting her hands restored. Neither Amelie nor Marie know what Marie has to find or do, but Amelie thinks it a challenge to keep teaching Marie despite her disability (Amelie is also very impressed with Marie's sacrificing both her hands for saving her although she would never admit it – she doesn't know that Marie's sacrifice was based on a misunderstanding). Marie learns a lot about fairies from this adventure (15xp): Fairie Lore (deals) 2.

Year 10, winter: Marie needs some Magic theory so she can move things around. Amelie teaches her. Magic Theory (Rego) 1(6)
Year 10, spring: After some thinking, Amelie decides to send Marie to the library so she can learn some magic that helps her moving things and turning pages (Amelie does not allow a grog to help Marie who becomes incredibly filthy and has to eat like a pig), Amelie is motivated to learn Rego fast and she as a good summa to read (L16 Q15; 15x1,5xp=23xp). Rego 6(2) +3. Using spontaneous magic, Marie can now move around things, but it is very exhausting.
Year 10, summer: Mistress Amelie teaches Marie how to copy books, so she can learn how to write without hands (11xp). Profession Scribe (carefully) 1(6)
Year 10, fall: Marie has to copy books for Amelie. The handwriting in the summer seaon is lousy, resulting in poor quality copy that Amelie sends to Durenmar's Great Library. (exposure 2xpx1,5=3xp). Finesse (Telekinesis) 0(3) +2

Year 11, winter: Mistress Amelie teaches Marie the more Magic Theory, using Marie's experience with Rego (11xp). Magic Theory (Rego) 2(7).
Year 11, spring and summer: More scribing for poor Marie (4xpx1.5=6xp). Finesse 1(4)
Year 11, fall: Marie wants to be able to use tools again. So she devours a Herbam summa (L6 Q21): Herbam 6. She succeeds reading it – and within a magic aura - even manages to use tools without exhausting herself!

Year 12, winter: Another tractatus to copy. Marie hates scribing (exposure: 2xpx1,5=3xp)! Finesse (Telekinesis) 1(7)
Year 12, spring: Ali the Arabian is happy about Marie doing all the writing, so he agrees to teaching her some more Latin (15 xp). Latin 4(5).
Year 12, summer: More scribing (2xpx1.5=3xp)! Finesse 2
Year 12 fall: Mistress Amelie refuses to teach Marie this year, pointing out that she had taught an extra season two years ago. Marie likes the library anyway, so she reads in Horst ex Mercere's excellent book on Magic Theory (20xp).

Year 13, winter and spring: Two more seasons of scribing (4 xp exposure). Profession Scribe 2
Year 13, summer: Puberty begins. Marie hates her looks. So she reads a book on Imagonem (21xp): Imagonem 6. She is surprised how difficult the subject is!
Year 13, fall: Mistress Amelie decides to teach some Penetration (11xp) using Certamen. Unsurprisingly, Marie is best at using Rego. Penetration (Rego) 1(6)

Year 14, winter: The cute stable boy has looked at Marie. She reads a book to look more attractive, a Muto summa (21 xp). Muto 6. It doesn't work. She hates him!
Year 14 spring, summer and fall: Mistress Amelie has been accused of Meddling with Fairies by a Quaesitor! She teaches Marie the basics of the Code of Hermes and then they look through the books for a good defense strategy (15 xp teaching/exposure). Code of Hermes (Fairies) 2..

Year 15, Winter and spring: Mistress Amelie and Marie travel to Irencilla where Amelie has to defend against the allegations. Marie has time to explore the covenant until Amelie convinces the Quasitor (exposure and practice: 4+2xp). Order of Hermes Lore (Merinita) 1(1).
Year 15, summer: Because of the success, Marie is allowed to read a summa on earth magic (21xp). Terram 6.
Year 15, fall: Mistress Amelie's teaching score has improved from spending so much time with Marie. This time she teaches the girl more Rego (12xpx1,5=18xp). Rego 8(5)

Year 16, winter and spring: Marie is on writing duty again. This time Amelie casts a daily Imagonem spell to annoy Marie and make sure she stays concentrated. Concentration (spells) 0(4)
Year 16, summer: Amelie teaches more Rego (12xpx1.5=18xp). Amelie is getting better at this than some of the Magi! Rego 10(4) +3.
Year 16, fall: When Amelie realizes that Marie hasn't learned any Vim yet, she makes her read a summa on it (21xp). Vim 6. The book tries to attack Marie, but she can handle it.

Year 17, winter: Amelie sets an other writing task: This time tiny animals distract Marie (exposure 2xp). Concentration (spells) 1(1).
Year 17, spring: Amelie likes teaching Marie all she knows about Rego, and Marie likes learning it, but progress becomes slower. Rego 11(11)
Year 17, summer: For the first time, Marie is allowed to help in the Lab (2xp*1,5=3xp exposure). Rego 12(2).
Year 17, fall: Marie reads a book on Body Magic (21xp). Corpus 6. Now she can throw around people!

Year 18, winter: Marie is glad that her Mistress is gone on some business. She reads a book on Rego (15xpx1,5=23xp). Rego 13(12)+3.
Year 18, spring and summer: Marie must help in the Lab for two seasons (4 xp exposure): Creo 2, Aquam 1.
Year 18: Fall: Mistress Amelie begins teaching spells. Her best Lab total is Aura 5 + Int 2 + Magic Theory 6 + Rego 18 + Terram 14= 45. Marie learns the spells "The Earth split asunder" (ReTe 30, Mastery 1: Multiple Casting) and "Disguise of the Transformed Image" (MuIm 15, Mastery 1: Quiet Casting). It turns out that her Magic is flawless!!!
Year 19, winter: Marie reads in the Rego summa again (15*1,5=23xp)! Rego 14(8)+3
Year 19, spring, summer and fall:
Year 20 winter: Mistress Amelie gets a familiar, so she spends four seaons in the lab, together with Amelie (8 xp Magic theory). Magic theory 4.
Year 20, spring: Marie reads the library summa on Rego – she fully understands it now. Rego 16+3.
Year 20, summer: Mistress Alina has to catch up with the teaching, so she teaches "Leap of homecoming" (ReCo35; quiet casting) and "The Unseen porter" (ReTe10, Mastery, Quiet Casting).
Year 20, fall: Mistress Alina teaches "The treacherous Weapon" (ReTe(He) 35, Mastery 1: Multiple Casting; like "the Treacherous Spear" but also for metal weapons)
Year 21, winter: Marie reads the Intellego summa (21xp). Int 6
Year 21: spring: Marie reads a summa on Ignem (21xp), because she wants to be overall prepared for the Gauntlet.
Year 21, summer and fall: Lab work (4 xp) once more. Marie wants to be left in peace so she can read! Me 2, An 1

Year 22, winter and spring: Scribe duties for Marie (4 xp exposure). Latin 4(9).
Year 22, summer: A last season of teaching before the Gauntlet. Amelie teaches "Vision of Heat's light" (InIg20, Mastery 1: Penetration), Unseen Arm (ReTe5: Mastery 1: Multiple Casting), Wizard's Sidestep (ReIm10: Mastery 1:Fast Casting) and "Call to Slumber" (ReMe10; Mastery 1: Penetration).
Year 22, Fall: As a final lesson, Mistress Amelie teaches (12 xp) how to raise a Parma Magica (Mentem) 1(7).
For my Gauntlet, Marie is told to bring three pawns of Re-vis to Amelie, collected at a covenant site known for its fairie guardian's embarrassing conditions for vis-harvesting. Since Marie fails to brave the fairie task, she magically forges a document with her Mistress' sigil, and takes it to the Mercer House of the covenant, where she withdraws the said amount of vis, stored from last years trip, in Amelie's name, which she presents. Amelie is pleased at Marie's craftiness and hastens to pay back the vis. Her official sigil is a defiant red fist on a green background and her name Marie Noris.

She now plans to seek out the knights of Seneca.

I'd predict about half if that from what I have read so far but this is irreleveant.

I was referring to the conclusion of your argument at that occasion referring to the previous examples you used earlier in the post that I had quoted already. Double quoting gelt redundant.

I understand quite well actually. That you have gone over the numbers and made a fix is sufficent for me. Regardless others did feel the need to have you clarify. So although I'm reluctant about doing so I'll counter the ad hominem argument with an ad populum one :slight_smile:

Loosing your hands from a faerie deal works perfectly. I am one of those radicals that elieves that you essential cannot be changed, and thus no matter how long ago your hands were chopped off they can e restored with magic. If born without them, then it is a birth defect and this is your essential nature.

Loosing them because of a faerie curse though, well, that is a wholly different matter. They simply cannot be restored, that's a condition of the faerie curse (what if you took Greater Malediction, with the equivilent effect being no hands?)

I took Greater Maediction. The character would be pointless if the hands could be restored.

I wonder if Imagonem disguises can have hands though?

Here is the 2nd draft of the character. This post has the character at gauntlet. My next reply will have the calculated totals. I marked with an asterisk (*) a couple of things I needed to elaborate (namely study totals and the talisman).

[size=150]Octavian of Tremere [/size]

Characteristics: Int +2, Per +2, Str +1, Sta +1, Com -1, Prs +1(+2), Dex +1, Qik +1.
Size: 0
Age: 38 (Apparent Age 24)
Decrepitude: 0
Warping Score: (to be calculated)
Confidence Score: 1 (3)

Virtues and Flaws: The Gift (Special), Hermetic Magus (Free Social Status), Minor Magical Focus [Certamen] (Free Hermetic), Entrancement (Major Supernatural), Fast Caster (Minor Hermetic), Improved Characteristics (Minor General), Keen Vision (Minor General), Piercing Gaze (Minor General), Strong Faerie Blood [Sidhe] (Major Supernatural) - Second Sight (Free Supernatural), Continence (Minor Personality), Favors [Terrace of Jerbiton] (Major Story), Judged Unfairly (Minor Personality), Study Requirement (Major Hermetic), Susceptibility to Divine Power (Minor Hermetic), Visions (Minor Story, Supernatural). Obtained post-gauntlet: Hermetic Prestige [Quaesitor in Good Standing] (Minor Hermetic), Mentor [Tacitus of Guernicus] (Minor Story).

Personality Traits: Distant +3, Pragmatic +3, Polite +3.
Reputations: Quaesitor in Good Standing +3 (Hermetic Magi)

Gauntlet: Init +1, Attack +3, Defense +4, Damage +3, Load 0.
Kick: Init +0, Attack +3, Defense +2, Damage +4, Load 0.
Dagger: Init +1, Attack +5, Defense +3, Damage +4, Load 0.

Soak: +3
Fatigue Levels: OK, 0, -1, -3, -5, Unconscious.
Wound Penalties: -1 (1-5), -3 (6-10), -5 (11-15), Incapacitated (16-20).

Artes Liberales 1 (Ritual Magic)
Athletics 2 (Running)
Awareness 2 (Alertness)
Brawl 2 (Grapples)
Code of Hermes 1 (Tribunal Procedures)
Entrancement 1 (Magi)
Etiquette 3 (Townsfolk)
Folk Ken 2 (Magi)
French 5 (Occitan dialect)
Guile 1 (Elaborate Lies)
Latin 4 (Hermetic Usage)
Leadership 1 (Intimidation)
Magic Theory 3 (Inventing Spells)
Parma Magica 1 (Mentem)
Penetration 1 (Rego)
Second Sight 1 (Illusory Disguises)
Stealth 1 (Sneak)

Hermetic Arts: Cr 7, In 0, Mu 7, Pe 0, Re 7, An 0, Aq 0, Au 0,
Co 0, He 0, Ig 0, Im 7, Me 7, Te 0, Vi 0.

Twilight Scars: None
Equipment: Partial Metal Reinforced Leather Armor, gauntlets, dagger, grimoire, thumb ring w/sigil of House Tremere, official quaesitor documentation, traveling clothing, ceremonial Tremere robes.
Encumbrance: 0


Endurance of the Berserkers (ReCo 15/+8)
Aura of Ennobled Presence (MuIm 10/+15)
Disguise of the Transformed Image (MuIm 15/+15)
Wizard's Sidestep (ReIm 10/+15)
Pains of the Perpetual Worry (CrMe 20/+15)
The Eyes of Somnus* (ReMe 5/+15)
Confusion of the Numbed Will (ReMe 15/+15)
The Unseen Porter (ReTe 10/+8)
Wizard's Communion (MuVi 15/+8)

  • As The Call to Slumber except with R: Eye.


The raven haired magus appears to be in his early to mid twenties; much younger than his real age of 38 would suggest. For most of the year his skin is a pale color, contrasting with dark wisps of hair that frame his aquiline features. In the summer, he tans easily to a dark coppery tone that emphasizes his sinister ancestry. He carries himself with a serene albeit distant manner that is easy to overlook were it not for his terrible eyes. Eerie pupil less green orbs that hungrily flicker in the darkness or when he invokes spells leave all but the most stalwart of magi or pious of crusaders with a feeling of unease.

Octavian’s soft-spoken speech and non-confrontational tone are uncharacteristic with his vocation as a quaesitor and his involvement in the recent troubles in the Iberian Tribunal. He is unfailingly polite regardless of the circumstance but there is always a nagging distrust impressed upon others despite the sincerity of his words.

He commonly wears a customized version of the Tremere ceremonial robes as a knee-long jacket over trousers tucked into knee high boots, and a black leather tunic. When he expects trouble, he wears a metal reinforced jerkin beneath his jacket as well as matching gauntlets hidden by long billowing sleeves.


Octavian’s sigil appears as a set of sinister glowing green eyes that briefly hypnotize viewers into seeing a murder of crows.


The magus that would become known as Octavian of Tremere was born in the year 1181 of our Lord in the city of Marseilles, France. The midwife of the birth, a hag embroiled in a feud with an unseelie court sidhe, switched the child with that of the sidhe offspring. The mortal parents were troubled by the faerie infant’s unnaturally malevolent green eyes. Fearful of demonic influence but unable to put the babe to death, they abandoned the child at the doorstep of one of the city’s orphanages. The caretakers reluctantly took the boy in after a particularly thorough and effective baptism and exorcism whose effects still linger on the soul. They named the child Marcel, a common name for orphans in Marseilles.

At the orphanage the young Marcel endured a difficult childhood. He did not age as quickly as the other boys and the nature of his eyes encouraged the others to ostracize or pick on him. The orphanage caretakers weren’t much better, often siding with the bullies. When Marcel began experiencing visions of things unseen, he quickly learned to keep quiet less he draw more disciplinary actions from the adults. Marcel began to withdraw within himself under the weight of constant loathing and mistrust.

By the time of his 9th birthday, the caretakers were seriously considering kicking the boy out. Fortunately for him, a mysterious man appeared at their doorstep inquiring about the children. To their surprise and relief, the man chose to adopt Marcel. They made little fuss and quickly sent the boy off. For the very first time in his life, he felt a feeling of joy for being wanted. This was short-lived.

His master was an up and coming magus named Tiberius of Tremere. Tiberius laid out the rules of the parens-filius relationship: the child was not to expect any succor or fatherly love, but was expected to obey unfailingly and to follow strict protocol. He began by renaming his apprentice Garçon, or boy in French, declaring he had to prove himself worthy of a name.

The first ten years of his apprenticeship, Garçon traveled southern France with his master pursuing research, vis or the occasional adventure. He learned to rely only on himself as his master gave him increasingly difficult and arduous tasks. Many of the errands purposefully forced him to interact with non-magi as Tiberius felt dealing with mundanes to be beneath him. The boy coped by erecting emotional barriers to shield himself from others.

As Tiberius’ stock rose in the Tremere ranks, the pair traveled back to Ceoris in the Transylvanian Tribunal to complete Garçon’s apprenticeship. Despite the more welcoming atmosphere at the Domus Magna for those with unique talents, Garçon never truly settled in. Years of rejection and trauma still lingered.

Finally, on the Winter Solstice of 1205, Marcel met his master in ritual certamen. While he predictably lost, he was fully accepted as a newly gauntleted member of House Tremere. After years of denigration, he took the most impressive name he could think of, that of the Emperor Octavian. Octavian’s first assignment as a member of House Tremere was to accompany his parens from Ceoris to Jaferiya.


1206 – Apparent age remains 15 – 36 XP.
Winter: Octavian remains at Ceoris with his teacher. When it is decided the two will travel to join an Iberian covenant. His pater, decides it wise to brush up on his filius’ parma magica as the high population of Flambeau in the Tribunal might try to take advantage. +10 XP Parma Magica.
Spring: Tiberius and Octavian travel to Greece to procure passage to the Iberia. Octavian finds a trading ship that is set to land in Castile in a month’s time. They travel the remainder of the way to Jaferiya covenant on foot after hiring a guide that spoke enough French to understand the magi. Octavian and his pater spend most of the trip working on learning the Spanish tongue from the sailors and their guide as well as the villages they pass through. +8 XP Spanish.
Summer: At their arrival, Tiberius is welcomed as a full member to the covenant while his former apprentice is allowed on a trial basis. Jaferiya’s leadership tasks Octavian to watch over the grogs’ duties to pick up more of the Spanish language as well as become familiarized with them. +8 XP Spanish.
Autumn: Octavian is allowed to study the art of Perdo this season from the covenant’s library. He takes his studies to a nearby orchard as the Fall takes root. +10 XP Perdo.

1207 – Apparent age +1 (16) – 40 XP
Winter: One of the Tremere at Jaferiya covenant is missing on a routine vis gathering during the Fall. The Flambeau magi attempt to downplay the disappearance to the remaining Tremere. Tiberius is suspicious and decides it prudent to further his filius’ parma magica. +10 XP Parma Magica
Spring: The missing Tremere has yet to return. Tiberius orders Octavian to covertly investigate. Venturing out in the wilderness, Octavian finds no signs of the missing magi. He concludes that he may have never even left the coven. Attempts to parlay or sneak into the missing Tremere’s sanctum meet with little success. +5 XP Hunt, +5 XP Stealth.
Summer: Tensions begin to rise between Tiberius and the Flambeau. The former begins to suspect something is amiss. He confides his suspicions to his filius in private. Octavian, borne mistrustful, concurs. Tiberius pens a letter to be delivered by his former apprentice to Terrace of Jerbiton to beseech the elder magus’ aid. The Jerbiton is skeptical, but eventually accedes to the request due to Octavian’s urging. Intrigue +5 XP, Etiquette +5 XP.
Autumn: Events of the 1207 Tribunal occur. Tiberius of Tremere dies assisting Terrace in escaping Jaferiya with evidence condemning the magi of the coven. Octavian is at the Tribunal proper as this occurs to not arouse suspicion upon his pater. While neither have obtained their sigil, Octavian is given instructions on how to act and what to say at Tribunal. Terrace vouches for the innocence of the young novice who does help the tribunal mages fight against Rasus and his followers. Parma Magica +5 XP, Code of Hermes +5 XP.

1208 – Apparent age 16 – 38 XP.
Winter: Now alone and without a covenant, Octavian spends the winter in Barcelona further expanding his knowledge of the Spanish language. He receives orders from House Tremere to join the March against Rasus and his followers. +8 XP Spanish.
Spring: Acting upon his orders, Octavian joins Karandos ex Flambeau’s March against his filius. Expecting a full fledged battle, Karandos organizes the magi as captains of grogs. The rag tag army spends most of the season training and readying itself for the fight ahead. +10 XP Leadership.
Summer: The battle on the plains of Toledo against the Shadow Flambeau ends poorly for the Order. Karandos experiences a debilitating twilight experience and the March is defeated. While no magi are among the casualties, many grogs and consortes perish. Octavian distinguishes himself with his illusion magics as his unit suffers the fewest deaths. The magi expect the fighting to continue and thus retreat into the wilderness to gather their strength. They spend most of the season living off the land as they make their way to Toledo. Penetration +5 XP, Survival +5 XP.
Autumn: The remaining members of the March wait for further instructions in Toledo. The elder magi take it upon themselves to improve the novices’ battle skills; partially blaming their weakness for the defeat. +10 XP Penetration.

1209 – Apparent age +1 (17) – 33 XP
Winter: With the onset of winter, Karandos returns to his coven effectively disbanding the March. By then many of the grogs and some of the magi had already deserted or left for greener pastures. Octavian spends another winter improving his Spanish. +8 XP Spanish.
Spring: Rumors from the countryside of Toledo speak of infant kidnappings by vile demons. The possibility of the Shadow Flambeau’s involvement leads Octavian to investigate. He eventually finds the culprits to be mischievous goblins through Second Sight. He is able to parlay them into ceasing for the time being. +5 XP Second Sight, +5 XP Etiquette.
Summer: A new March forms to combat the Shadow Flambeau after one of the magi claims to have an arcane connection to one of the renegades. Octavian joins the group. The arcane connection proves weak however and they must enact a ritual to power a strong enough spell to locate their quarry. The magi spend most of the season improving their philosophiae in preparation of the ritual. When they finally cast the spell, they are shown the location of a lone tower on the peaks of a nearby mountain. +5 XP Philosophiae.
Autumn: Further scrying spells are unsuccessful. The tower’s highly defensible position makes it a difficult target. It is decided some scouts will be sent on a reconnaissance mission. Due to his special talents, Octavian is chosen among the group. His eyesight proves pivotal in saving the lives of many of his sodales as the tower was a trap left to collapse upon intruders. The mechanism concealed under imaginem magic. +5 XP Second Sight, +5 XP Stealth.

1210 – Apparent age +1 (18) – 38 XP
Winter: The March disbands leaving Octavian once more to spend the winter in the city to continue to improve his Spanish. Spanish +8 XP.
Spring: A new Wizard’s March forms under the command of one of the Duresca Guernicus. Octavian is recruited for his unique abilities as they track one of the Shadow Flambeau that has taken refuge in the city of Castille. Octavian is able to coerce information from locals without the use of magic and potentially drawing the attention of the renegade magi. The ex-Flambeau has set up a cult in the roman sewers. +5 XP Entrancement, +5 XP Intrigue.
Summer: The magi venture into the sewers to combat the cult. They find stiff resistance but eventually overcome the preliminary defenses and traps. Cornered in his own summoning room, the shadow Flambeau broke the binding circle containing the demon he had summoned to deal with the intruders. The demon repaid his warden by killing him before attacking the magi of the Order. The demon proved too much and had killed or incapacitated most of the magi. Desperately, Octavian gathered a handful of vis from a fallen corpse and invoked a spontaneous perdo vim spell. Wounded, the demon fled into the bowels of the city. Penetration +5 XP, Brawl +5 XP.
Autumn: Maltus, Praeco of Iberia, is found dead in his sanctum. The local magi are convened by the investigating quaesitor for questioning. After ascertaining his innocence, Octavian is asked to help investigate the site of the death. He finds nothing incriminating through his skills to the disappointment of the Quaesitor. Code of Hermes +5 XP, Second Sight +5 XP.

1211 – Apparent Age 18 – 35 XP
Winter: After news of his recent exploits, Octavian is invited to meet Terrace of Jerbiton. The elder magus is likely to become the next praeco and hopes to bolster his political position. He wishes for the young Tremere to rise through the Order but also become indebted to him for his help. Terrace recomments Octavian to Andorra covenant as a potential new member. Archmagus Antonio Perez of Flambeau consents under the condition that the Tremere spends a Vigil on the night of Winter Solstice in the Caves of Entropy when the unseelie fae are at their strongest. Octavian’s faerie heritage allows him to escape the night relatively unscathed. +5 XP Second Sight, +5 XP Etiquette.
Spring: The Archmagus Antonio Perez further stipulates that Octavian must learn the history of the Knights of Seneca before being accepted into the coven. After careful study of the knightly order, he is fully accepted in the covenant of Andorra. +5 XP Order of Seneca Lore.
Summer: As the war with the Shadow Flambeau continues to worsen, Terrace convinces Baruch of Guernicus to recommend Octavian to join the quaesitors. The novice travels to Magvillus for his interview with the Prima of House Guernicus. Bilera sees many of her own qualities in the Tremere and accedes. Etiquette +5 XP.
Autumn: Octavian remains at Magvillus and studies Intellego for his coming duties. +15 XP intellego.

1212 – Apparent Age +1 (19) – 55 XP.
Winter: Octavian studies a summae on the Code of Hermes while at Magvillus. +15 XP Code of Hermes.
Spring: As the spring thaw begins, Octavian is sent back to Iberia to pursue his training under the supervision of Tacitus of Guernicus. The situation in the Tribunal has worsened with the Shadow Flambeau magi amassing victories against the Order. Octavian practices his fighting skills with the crewmen of the ship and at the armory at Duresca in preparation for another March. +10 XP Brawl.
Summer: The demon released in 1210 resurfaced at the head of a growing cult. It is feared Church authorities may link its appearance with the Order. Tacitus and Octavian are sent to track it down. The pair are able to find and defeat the demon. Penetration +5 XP, Vim +5 XP.
Autumn: Octavian returns to Andorra and spends the season studying the Key of Bonisagus. +20 XP Magic Theory.

1213 – Apparent Age +1 (20) – 26 (36) XP
Winter: Octavian practices Pains of Perpetual Worry in order to master the spell. Pains of Perpetual Worry Mastery +5 XP.
Spring: Octavian studies Junola’s Thaumaturgica on Vim. +11 XP Vim.
Summer: Tacitus and Octavian spend the season traveling the Tribunal in search of any leads on the Shadow Flambeau. +10 XP Iberia Lore.
Autumn: Tacitus teaches Octavian useful spells for a quaesitor.*

1214 – Apparent Age (20) – 29 (39) XP
Winter: Octavian studies the King’s Mirror. Intrigue +9 XP.
Spring: Octavian and Tacitus are able to ascertain that the Shadow Flambeau have assisted the Christian forces in the battle of Las Navas de Tolosa after careful investigation and interrogation of participants. Folk Ken +5 XP, Entrancement +5 XP.
Summer: Pursuing their investigations, they uncover evidence that the Shadow Flambeau are in league with multiple Christian authorities throughout the region. Iberia Lore +5 XP, Intrigue +5 XP.
Autumn: Tacitus and Octavian revealed their findings at Tribunal causing a raucus. Terrace of Jerbiton is able to rally support under the threat of the renegade magi. It is eventually proposed in a landmark decision to erect Hermes’ Portals linking the covens of Iberia. Code of Hermes +5 XP, Intrigue +5 XP. Terrace appoints Tacitus and Octavian to lead a March next summer.

1215 – Apparent Age +1 (21) – 33 (43)
Winter: Octavian spends the winter studying Sight from the Shroud’s Shadow. +8 XP Intellego.
Spring: Octavian studies Liberi de Creationé in the vineyards of Andorra. +15 XP creo.
Summer: Tacitus and Octavian gather their March in preparation for battle. News from other quaesitors reaches their ears about a new Christian offensive bolstered by Shadow Flambeau against the muslims. While Tacitus, a traditionalist is reluctant to act for fear of violating the Code on meddling in mundane affairs, Octavian is more pragmatic. He lets slip the information to their muslim sodales who tip off their muslim contacts. The Muslims score a sound victory on the Christians with the March rapidly swooping in to slay the Shadow Flambeau magi. Folk Ken +5 XP, Intrigue +1 XP, , Intellego +4 XP.
Autumn: Tacitus teaches Octavian spells. *

1216 – Apparent Age +1 (22) – 41 XP
Winter: Octavian spends the winter studying Sight from the Shroud’s Shadow. +8 XP Intellego.
Spring: Octavian studies Liberi de Creationé in the vineyards of Andorra. +15 XP creo.
Summer: Octavian is given his first solo investigation. Rumors surface around one of the survivors of the failed Christian offensive of last year. Octavian tracks the survivor down and finds one of the Shadow Flambeau grogs. The man has little information to offer and is made to throw himself from a cliff. Entrancement +5 XP, Intrigue +5 XP.
Autumn: Octavian pursues studying Sight from the Shroud’s Shadow. +8 XP Intellego.

1217 – Apparent Age (22) – 40 XP
Winter: Octavian spends the winter studying Apparitions and Phantasms +10 XP Imaginem.
Spring: Octavian spends the Spring studying Apparitions and Phantasms +10 XP Imaginem.
Summer: Investigations turn up a bound demon in Barcelona much like the one found in the secret enclave within Jaferiya. After Octavian confirmed noticing links emanating from the demon akin to those of a familiar, the gathered quaesitors decide to use the demon as an arcane connection and enacted a ritual of slaying on both the demon and the connection. The activities of the Shadow Flambeau begin to peter out after this. Second Sight +5 XP, Philosophiae +5 XP.
Autumn: Octavian studies Apparitions and Phantasms. +10 XP imaginem.

1218 – Apparent Age +1 (23) – 30 (40) XP
Winter: Octavian is made to question several captured grogs formerly of Jaferiya. He uses the opportunity to experiment with his entrancement powers to break their wills. +10 XP Entrancement.
Spring: Octavian studies Liberi de Creationé in the vineyards of Andorra. +15 XP creo.
Summer: Octavian travels to Magvillus to be fully accepted as a quaesitor in good standing and allowed a chance to meet other members of House Guernicus briefly before traveling to Ceoris to attend House Tremere’s Decennial. While there, he is permitted to challenge his grand-parens for his sigil. He fails, but is nevertheless rewarded with a Navaratna crafted for him by a gypsy astrologer in the employ of the House. +5 XP Order of Hermes Lore.
Autumn: Upon his return to Iberia, Octavian spends the season attuning the Navaratna ring to be used as his talisman.

1219 – Apparent Age +1 (24) – 30 XP (40)
Winter: Octavian is bid by the magi of Duresca to survey the Knights of Seneca for any signs of corruption. After the scare of the Shadow Flambeau, the quaesitors are concerned about further corruption within the Tribunal. Acting upon his orders, Octavian approaches Archmagus Antonio Perez and spoke of a desire to join the Order of Seneca. Skeptical of the Tremere’s intentions, he reluctantly accepts to initiate him seeing as he did manage to escape the Cave of Entropy relatively unscathed. The initiation is scheduled for the Spring. +5 XP Guile, +5 XP Intrigue.
Spring: It is decided to initiate Octavian into the mystery of the Great Talisman as it isn’t the most secretive of mysteries and would serve as a test of his sincerity.*
Summer: Through the Great Talisman virtue*, Octavian opens his talisman to an attunement. Octavian studies On the wizard’s sidestep mastery tractatus. Wizard’s Sidestep Mastery +10 XP
Autumn: Through the Great Talisman virtue*, Octavian opens his talisman to an attunement. Octavian trains Entrancement. Entrancement +10 XP.

[size=150]Octavian of Tremere [/size]

Characteristics: Int +2, Per +2, Str +1, Sta +1, Com -1, Prs +1(+2), Dex +1, Qik +1.
Size: 0
Age: 38 (Apparent Age 24)
Decrepitude: 0
Warping Score: (to be calculated)
Confidence Score: 1 (3)

Virtues and Flaws: The Gift (Special), Hermetic Magus (Free Social Status), Minor Magical Focus [Certamen] (Free Hermetic), Entrancement (Major Supernatural), Fast Caster (Minor Hermetic), Improved Characteristics (Minor General), Keen Vision (Minor General), Piercing Gaze (Minor General), Strong Faerie Blood [Sidhe] (Major Supernatural) - Second Sight (Free Supernatural), Continence (Minor Personality), Favors [Terrace of Jerbiton] (Major Story), Judged Unfairly (Minor Personality), Study Requirement (Major Hermetic), Susceptibility to Divine Power (Minor Hermetic), Visions (Minor Story, Supernatural). Obtained post-gauntlet: Hermetic Prestige [Quaesitor in Good Standing] (Minor Hermetic), Mentor [Tacitus of Guernicus] (Minor Story).

Personality Traits: Distant +3, Pragmatic +3, Polite +3.
Reputations: Quaesitor in Good Standing +3 (Hermetic Magi)

Gauntlet: Init +1, Attack +3, Defense +4, Damage +3, Load 0.
Kick: Init +0, Attack +3, Defense +2, Damage +4, Load 0.
Dagger: Init +1, Attack +5, Defense +3, Damage +4, Load 0.

Soak: +3
Fatigue Levels: OK, 0, -1, -3, -5, Unconscious.
Wound Penalties: -1 (1-5), -3 (6-10), -5 (11-15), Incapacitated (16-20).

Artes Liberales 1 (Ritual Magic)
Athletics 2 (Running)
Awareness 2 (Alertness)
Brawl 3 (Grapples)
Code of Hermes 3, 10 (Tribunal Procedures)
Entrancement 3 (Magi)
Etiquette 4 (Townsfolk)
Folk Ken 2, 10 (Magi)
French 5 (Occitan dialect)
Guile 1, 5 (Elaborate Lies)
Hunt 1 (Tracking)
Iberia Lore 2 (Geography)
Intrigue 3, 10 (Gossip)
Latin 4 (Hermetic Usage)
Leadership 2 (Intimidation)
Magic Theory 4 (Inventing Spells)
Order of Hermes Lore 1 (Personalities)
Order of Seneca Lore 1 (History)
Parma Magica 3 (Mentem)
Penetration 3 (Rego)
Philosophiae 1, 5 (Ritual Magic)
Second Sight 3 (Illusory Disguises)
Spanish 3, 10 (Dialect)
Stealth 2 (Sneak)
Survival 1

Hermetic Arts: Cr 11.5, In 7.5, Mu 7, Pe 4, Re 7, An 0, Aq 0, Au 0,
Co 0, He 0, Ig 0, Im 10.3, Me 7, Te 0, Vi 5.1.

Twilight Scars: None
Equipment: Partial Metal Reinforced Leather Armor, gauntlets, dagger, grimoire, thumb ring w/sigil of House Tremere, official quaesitor documentation, traveling clothing, ceremonial Tremere robes.
Encumbrance: 0


Endurance of the Berserkers (ReCo 15/+8)
Aura of Ennobled Presence (MuIm 10/+15)
Disguise of the Transformed Image (MuIm 15/+15)
Wizard's Sidestep (ReIm 10/+15) Mastery 1.5 (Fast Casting)
Pains of the Perpetual Worry (CrMe 20/+15) Master 1 (Still Casting)
The Eyes of Somnus* (ReMe 5/+15)
Confusion of the Numbed Will (ReMe 15/+15)
The Unseen Porter (ReTe 10/+8)
Wizard's Communion (MuVi 15/+8)

  • As The Call to Slumber except with R: Eye.

Probably as imaginem is about altering perception not the form. Now if you were to cast a muto corpus spell that would transform you into say a cat, your character would turn into a cat but missing the two front paws.

Your Tremere Quaesitor does not have the House Virtue (Guernicus). Is that because he works undercover?

The Guernicus spells in HoH: TL are good for a quaeitor, especially the ones that deal with shrouding (MuVi).

a bit of nitpicking: trousers???


So, there's a major Merinita virtue, Becoming, that allows three rituals, each of which represents a change from human to faerie. I only want the capacity for one of these three transformations; the one is perfect for Buttercup and the other two don't work. Is it ok to take 1 of the 3 as a minor virtue?




I thought the House Virtue was Hermetic Prestige. If I am mistaken, I'll make the appropriate changes.

I read them and found a few interresting. I hadn't picked any spells yet as I was waiting for confirmation on what the teacher's lab totals would be for study.

I was browsing wikipedia for clothing of the period. The term trousers does cover leg garments from the era. The character is pragmatic so I felt hose would not suit him. If you know of any others I'd be glad to hear them.

Why wouldn't they?

The loss of hands doesn't have to be a matter of essential nature, so long as it can't be undone easily.

However, I did have one question: what's the Disfigured Flaw, something different from the hands?


As for the part about the quote, no, the argument I was using wouldn't apply to the other characters as well: my point was that Viola had spent time in an activity that made sense under ArM4 but no sense under ArM5.

If you understand, please don't say you don't. What set me off was that I'd just spent an hour doing a full analysis explaining exactly what difference everything made, and volunteering to fix it, and then, after that, you made like you couldn't understand.


Which one?


Actually, I thought the disfigured flaw was the hands, because the no hands flaw says nothing about social consequences. Or is disfigured always automatically included in no hands?

If you think the two flaws cannot be combined, I see three possibilities:

  1. turning disfigured into: Lesser malediction - disfigured, so it cannot be hidden.
  2. taking another - unrelated - minor flaw instead.
  3. Giving up a minor virtue (Affinity with finesse or cautious sorcerer).

I don't like being the naysayer, but I don't see how you could have no hands without being disfigured, and so I'd assume the one Flaw includes the other. OTOH, the No Hands Flaw doesn't mention any social penalties.

Either someone screwed up in writing the No Hands Flaw, or maybe the disfigurement of No Hands isn't bad enough to make you "ugly" enough to qualify for the Disfigured Flaw. Not knowing the medieval mind, I'm not sure how people would react to it.

I hate picking Flaws in ArM--even in 5, there still aren't enough good ones, esp. since you're essentially limited to picking 2 major and 4 minor, with no flexibility on the mix between the two. If you do need another Flaw, I could see Wrathful working, for one. Proud could also work.