Table Talk - Development


No aging for familiars. Otherwise a prototypical long-lived cat-loving mage would always have red-rimmed eyes from crying over the last dozen or so lost familiars.

A 'Magical Animal Companion' a familiar is not...

Is the consensus that I should ditch the leadworker virtue?

If so, any suggestions for something to replace it with? Or perhaps simply take that season and apply it to spells, ditching a flaw?

What exactly does the hermetic version of summoning ( from the spell guidelines in mysteries ) do? I assume that as the default spell is of concentration duration that if you stop concentrating the spell sends it back wherever it came from? Or why have a duration greater than momentary? Does it provide any control over the creature? My general assumption is that it does not, and you have to use something else to achieve that.

I'd also assume that, like the demon conjuring spell from the infernal book, you can effect the summoning within a circular ward if you have one. If you had such a circle in place could you then use that to contain the creature, no longer needing concentration? Or would the creature still return to point of origin if you lost concentration?

Could you integrate the hermetic style of summoning with the goetic summoning circle, to contain your summons, or would -have- to use a hermetic circle? Would you need concentration then? Would a hermetic circle ward, containing a creature, count as a 'summoning circle' for purposes of goetic powers? Or could you draw a summoning circle around said already contained creature and automatically thus contain it?

The cross-application of Rego Vim spirit magics seems to be kind of a gray area where each one was designed as a stand alone system and without a great deal of effort to develop the mechanics of a spirit specialist pursuinig and integrating some of the techniques.

Right--the crow in question has no mystical connection to the character. It doesn't seem far-fetched, though, to presume that magical animals live longer than the normal ones.


I don't know if Animal Aging is even part of the rules! When does an animal start making rolls? But yeah, I can imagine that magical animals would age at a slower, human-scaled rate or slower, and faerie animals might not age noticeably much at all.

I think RoP: Magic answers this - anyone had a chance to read it much yet?

Otherwise, check out the example character: Virgil the Magical Cat and related thread: ... Virgil.pdf



I've printed this out and red through this and it's really interesting. I'd always liked the non-Hermetic gruagachan/trollsynir (can't wait for Hedge Magic obviously) but I think this character captures the giant-kin archetype really well, so kudos to Xavi even if he is a bit slack at posting (although the main forum posting of the character's development was interetsing to follow).

In fact I think all the magi characters are pretty well developed and distinct, so well done to all really and special mention to JeanMichelle for his companion/grogs and Max for his Mercer House staff ideas.

I have the following comments on Marcellus/Glacius:

  • are the Arts listed his starting Arts only? They look too low to allow invention of some of the higher spells outside the Frost/Ice focus even with the optimised lab/lab texts etc. (I haven't done the math).

  • I'd agree there are a lot of spells, but many of them are very low level and don't have any Mastery associated unlike some of the other builds in the Saga. They're all seem tied to the "frost giant" theme. It might be worth listing the spells that affect the larger form (ie have increased magnitude to accomodate a giant-sized individual) separately to make it easier to keep track of. I'd even list the Magic Focus spells separately for a similar reason.

  • When you do the combat stats, having a separate "giant-sized" statblock (like Bjornaer presented often have a Heart Beast statblock) might be useful for the same reasons as for the spells above.

  • I cant see how Close Family Ties fits with the character or story. I would have thought Dispassionate (GotF, page 40) might fit with the Ice Giat aspect but it doesn't allow you to have strong personality traits (greater than +1 or less than -1). Perhaps it might only affect you in your giant form as a Twilight Scar or something?

  • There was a 4th edition mechanic from LoFaI that tracks a trollsynir's warping into a troll by assigning it a Personality Trait which builds via a pyramid XP gained through warping/experiences etc. I'll see if I can dig out something I wrote about an ArM5 version of gruagacha/trollsynir (Marko might remember this from our hedge magic banter of old...). Hedge Magic may well cover this but it's a while off release yet.

  • There looks like there's some detail on Magical Giants in RoP: Magic that might be helpful for this character. I've found some stuff on Basque giants (possibly tales about pagan Basques changed through oral folklore) and the Basques extended almost to Andorra in the early Middle-Ages/Late Antiquity so some of that might be chasing down. I'm not sure about Catalan giants, they're more in line with Occitan/French folklore I think.


Looks good as a concept. Loved the role-playing on return from the griffon-hunt - real Flambeau stuff, LOL.



Since I helped build him, I'll adress a few of these

No, those are his full Art scores. He gets a big boost from his lab (+7 spells)

Close Family Ties represents his Family; wife and stepdaughter. Dispassionate is good, but he wouldn't start with that. A Twilight result will cause that eventually though :wink:

That may be interesting to look at :slight_smile:. My plan was to grant him a Virtue or Flaw directly relating to giant-ness with each Twilight Episode.

OK, in that case I'll wait until getting the book to detail the rook--which won't be until after I move, since I don't want them to send it to the wrong place. :slight_smile:


Though RoP-Faeries comes out soon, I am sure a lot of ideas can bbe extrapolated from RoP-Magic. I have it ordered :smiley:!

Well, this isn't a faerie animal, so the first book will be fine, but I plan to buy both. :slight_smile:



JFYI, expectation of this book is the reason I placed a Giant and a Dragon as Monster Hooks for our covenant. I wanna test these rules out. It is shipping!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jarkman showed me a spell that then inspired me to go and do some reading.

(Form) Jar of Solomon
R: Voice, D: Ring, T: Ind, Re Aq/Au/Ig/Te Level 35

These spells, one for each elemental Form, allow a Hermetic Sahir to imprison a Jinn within a common object such as a lamp, earthenware jar, gemstone or metal ring as appropriate, imitating a lost non-Hermetic ability of the tradition passes down from the magic of Solomon. The spell does not compel the imprisoned Jinn to serve willingly however and in many cases angers the bound Jinn, resulting in a +6 to the Ease Factor needed to successfully strike a bargain with the spirit using the Sihr Ability. The Jinn may still be commanded with Hermetic magic normally.

Sahir who imprison Jinn regularly are likely to gain a negative Reputation with Jinn as a Slaver, the score of which subtracts from all their rolls to bargain with Jinn. If the caster botches the spellcasting roll, they may be imprisoned within the object instead of the targeted Jinn at the Storyguide's discretion.

(Base 15 (control a spirit in an unnatural manner), +2 Voice, +2 Ring)

I remembered seeing something like this from 4th edition. But the interesting thing is that it made me go and brush up on my 5th edition spirit magic reading. Namely this one.

R: Voice, D: Ring, T: Ind, Level 35
This spell binds ghosts to objects or places.
Traditional sites include mirrors, skulls and graves. It does
not compel trapped ghosts to serve willingly, but members
of House Tremere threaten or bribe their ghosts into
(Base 15, +2 Voice, +2 Ring)

Now this appears to be based on the lvl 15 mentem guideline for 'summon a ghost'. Interestingly enough the new multi-form / realm guidelines for spirit summoning in mysteries also place summoning at lvl 15, so you could just as well use that guideline to build the spell at the same level.

How would you guys feel about vim form realm aligned version, like the other summoning / spirit spells from mysteries? It would be a lvl 35 spell that could keep contained/bound a spirit of one realm into the ring or into an object etc.

How would you guys feel about putting another magnitude onto the binding to keep the bound spirit from being able to use it's powers without orders/permission? As is it can throw it's powers from within the binding unless there is another compulsion/effect used to keep it in line. Unless I am mistaken?

This also raises the prospect of making a the traditional arcane connection range summoning spell at a ring duration. ( lvl 15 / +4 Arc. / +2 Ring / Ind. ) For a total of 45. 50 if you add the magnitude for the 'containment' effect.Not much worse than the regular 40, and now you have the spirit in 'ye olde summoning circle'. Thoughts?

Vortigern et al. I moving the Spirits/Summoning discussion to a separate thread here to make it easier to follow - the current development thread is getting a bit complicated with subthreads and I don't want to dominate it:

I'll post replies to Vortigern's questions there.

Please feel welcome to contribute regardless of it's location!



I don't know to be honest but it makes sense. I can't recall reading anything to that effect - let's throw it to a poll on the main forum, eh and see if Erik or one of the other RoP:tI authors chimes in?

  • Lachie

OK, here are character sheets for Viola's two shield grogs, Edward, whom she brought with her to Haunted Springs (her old covenant) from Centrum in Leicester (her pater's covenant), and Astrid, a local Goth girl in Crimea who was a member of a band of bandits operating out of the woods that became the covenant's grounds--they provided most of the original grogs.

Neither Edward nor Astrid has taken a Longevity potion up to this point, as they've been engaged busily in childbearing, with the fifth child, Theodoric, born last year (they've been putting off asking for Longevity rituals because they wanted a boy, and the first four children [I actually rolled this randomly] were girls: Kristino, Zoe, Amilo, and Eirene). They need to make aging rolls for winter of 1220. Also, how would Viola go about obtaining Longevity rituals for them?

Unless I miscounted, Edward accumulated 289 XP's over 15 years (not counting the half year in which they started play, which would have been an additional 24 XP's each, if you assume the first half of the year was Exposure), and Astrid accumulated 281 (Edward had a couple of seasons of Practicing a language, which gives 8 XP's instead of the usual 4). That averages out to about 19 XP's a year. We were giving the grogs about 20 a year, right?

Anyway, here are the character sheets and advancement logs. I've also made a few corrections to Viola's, already posted in the Character Sheets thread.

Edward, 1204:

Edward, 1220:

Edward's Advancement: ... Edward.htm

Astrid, 1204:

Astrid, 1220:

Astrid's Advancement: ... Astrid.htm


For Winter, Carmen studies "Sight from the Shroud’s Shadow" (Intéllego Summa: L14 Q8 ), gaining 8 xp's. I noted the results on her character sheet.

What else has everyone donw with the winter season, and have you noted the results on your character sheets yet?


I like the Grogs :smiley:
Personal friends of Viola I presume? I can see them being much closer to her than anyone else. I don't mind the Grogs having story flaws at all. I actually like that. Is everyone else cool with it?

As I recall, those got added when the grogs were retrofitted from ArM4--they were the things that would disrupt the characters the least. I had forgotten they violated rules :slight_smile:.


That's why I am not too keen on the new V&F rules, :laughing:. Grogs should be allowed some story flaws. They are not main characters, true, but they can e interesting characters with vital stories with deep meaning. Grogs are not meat shields. They are people.

I am fine with the stats as they stand.