Table Talk - Development

Adventure xp's are okay, but only on adventures where he accompanies Viola. Solo adventures or adventures without Viola have the normal restrictions for advancement.

As a Grog level character, you are limited to 3 points of Virtues & Flaws, and cannot take any Major Qualities or Inferiorities. And this is a High Power saga, not medium. I do think a Companion in a High Power game has a base Might of 15. Create him as a companion. If you are looking for examples, I made Marcellus' Magical Animal Companion into a Familiar.

https://forum.atlas-games.com/t/the-break-room/102/1

Happy New Year Andorra!

One more thing I can think of is that familiars probably should be required to take the Wealthy Virtue to reflect the fact that they don't have jobs around the covenant--though maybe "being a butterfly" qualifies as their "work" (even with Wealthy, you have to do one season of work, but can you take Wealthy twice?).

Scott

Familiars are like magi, they don't have to do any more work than their magi do, four free seasons a year as they are supported as part of the upkeep of their magus/maga master.

As they are supported by the covenant, poor and wealthy do not apply and can not be taken.

While that would seem logical, it's not what ROP: Magic implies--in the section on cats, which is geared in part towards cat familiars, it talks about the need for the cats to have Wealthy.

Scott

Actually, don't the original rules say that familiars get four free seasons a year? Or do they say anything at all on the subject?

Scott

That thing about cats, you gotta remember that the particular author is crazy for cats. He has like a bajillion of them. Anyways, a Familiar, as opposed to any other sort of magical being, is intrinsically tied to their magus. They have four seasons a year of whatever their magus wants them to do. If that means four free seasons, cool. If it means four seasons of grueling labor, well, that's life for a Familiar. Not to upset ant PETA people in here (if there is any), but Familiars are property, just like any other enchanted item of the magus. Therefore, his lifestyle expenses are entirely dependant on the whims and resources of that magus.

While that's true, it doesn't at all preclude having to take Virtues to represent it--but what do the ArM5 rules say?

Scott

The rules say that you and your familiar gain the True Friend Virtue. That's all. I mean, if you want to waste a major virtue on Wealthy, I won't stop you. But he is a wealthy butterfly. How do butterflies measure wealth? He has what? A really nice perch? A silver plated coccoon?

unlimited supply of flowers to get pollen and leaves to eat.

It just means he doesn't have to work--at whatever butterflies do all day. :slight_smile: Obviously, he can be fed, but he might still have urges to flit about from flower to flower. In all seriousness, (non-familiar) magical animals without Wealthy will only get two seasons of non-Exposure Advancement, which is something to remember once someone creates one.

I'll have to look at the main rules again once I get back Sunday night.

Scott

:smiley:

What do butterflies do all day? I dunno. With the abundance of flowers and foliage in the surroundng area, I would say he is already quite wealthy indeed, without the need of a Virtue.

All familiars, regardless of magical or mundane origin, have zero free seasons per year, or depending on how you look at it, all four are free. The familiar's time and energy, all of it, is at the will and pleasure of their magus. If you want them in the lab all four seasons, then that is what they does, If you want to speand four seasons teaching them something, then that is your decision. The expense and livelyhood of the familiar are entirely the responsability and discresion of his magus.

My spelling sucks.

Anyway, I see no advantage to choosing the Wealthy Virtue, and I would rule that a familiar cannot take the Poor Flaw. Like a grog or custos or companion covenfolk, their fortunes are the same as those of the covenant in which they reside.

And I cannot concieve of any reason someone would want to make a non-magical familiar anyway. As ASG, I can promise I won't hold out on the supply of magical creatures in Mythic Europe.

Thinking more on it, I can see how Wealthy & Poor, in a slightly modified interpretation, can apply to non familiar animals that are otherwise not supported by the covenant. An Animal Companion/Magical Animal companion would draw off of the resources of the individual who had taken that Flaw, but other beasts & beings who don't get free food handed to theim must spend "X" amount of time hunting & forraging. But a Familiar, magical or mundane, has all of his time given over to the needs and desires of his magus. The magus (hopefully) feeds and cares for him as needed. However, this Familiar would then count as a mouth to feed when calculating income and expenses for the covenant. A butterfly doesn't require much, but feeding and caring for a bear familiar would certainly have an impact on our coffers.

Besides, how much can a butterfly or any other animal really "advance"? I know it's magic, but the idea of a butterfly having like a fly skill of 15 and being unhindered by say gale force winds is kind of absurd.

Think creatively: a butterfly who understands languages and has a high score in Folk Ken and/or other relevant Abilities makes a wonderful spy, because who would suspect a butterfly? Mine has learned Stealth as well, just in case.

Scott

Oh, most certainly of course. The familiar does not need to be a physical powerhouse. Social skills, Educated Abilities, and Arcane Abilities are what is most useful. Viola has the Blatant Gift. We don't notice because of Parma, but mayhaps she needs Constantine to do her social interactions with grogs for her, carry messages, and serve as the principal for her agency (if she builds one). A wide variety of languages is most useful, and of course, a high Magic Theory score is highly desired.

I dunno, the idea of a butterfly that can fly against a gale force wind sounds kind of cool to me though. Perhaps some sort of Rego Auram power or enchantment?

She doesn't have Blatant Gift, but Viola does have Incomprehensible. Yeah, the butterfly could very well have some powers that lets him do strange things--once I get back home and have my main rules, I'll be able to design him as a full-fledged magical animal.

Scott

Ameline might get a familiar at some point but only if I can figure a way I could have vis and if I can have one in the first place. That certain vow is could prevent it.

You cannot keep vis, but you can use it. If your desire is to make a familiar or enchant an item, and if you were a member of our covenant (which you soon will be), then you could recieve a specific use stipend I guess.

However, though I don't see any reference in the Divine bbook, I would think that bonding with a Familiar would be somewhat sacraligeous.

I'm not sure about that. Some Hermetic magi might see it as something akin to marriage, hence a violation of the vow of celibacy, but I don't think it's really that. I think that that a maga herself might feel though that the close tie to a familiar might interfere with her relationship with God.

Mind you, what if she could find a Divine animal?

Scott