I had wanted to avoid getting involved in this OOCly, but I must admit I've been suckered in as it were.
So he's a member of the Cult of Heroes. That does not mean that he is in anyway Pagan. Heck, there are Mercurians who simply think of the 'Gods' as nothing more than powerful spirits ( Neo-Mercurians if I remember correctly ). There is no reason that such a character can't be a Christian and a member of the Cult.
A small village church will hardly spread the Dominion in a really significant way. Sure the church will probably get an Aura of 1, but thats about it. And while I understand wanting to keep the Dominion far far away from Magic Auras, the whole vis / aura destruction thing, isn't really a problem ( in this given instance ).
... Kallista started off with Blasphemy ( and lots of it! ), period. See these examples:
Kallista has the social graces and tact of an atomic bomb. How could anyone who even considers themselves marginally Catholic not take offense to such statements?
Censorship? Kallista was asked to stop committing blasphemy. So stop acting like Kallista said something like "I would prefer to limit the potential danger to our magical resources with the spread of a Dominion Aura, so perhaps we should place the Church as far from the Covenant as possible?" If she had shown even an ounce of tact or social grace then yes, I would feel sympathy for her. However from her comments she has shown nothing more than hatred of the Divine and that she was simply trying to get a rise out of Stavros because he is a former Tytalus.
Odysseus didn't say that she couldn't vote, made no threats on her life, he simply asked that she stop committing blasphemy. When she refused, he challenged her to Certamen. So I'd appreciate if you'd stop saying the he is attempting to censor Kallista as nothing of the sort happened. I feel as if you are exaggerating in an attempt to prove a point. As stated before, if she had presented her point in a polite manner ( ya know, minus the blasphemy? ) Odysseus would have been happy to have a discussion, like civilized folks. Instead she has done nothing but commit blasphemy and be antagonistic towards the Christian Magi. Tell me then, how is someone who was raised Catholic supposed to act?
Look at what her blasphemy was that every one complained about. She compared dominion to Infernal as both being detrimental to hermetic magic. THAt is it and she stood by her statements to that effect. Her comparison is apt, accurate and correct. Both auras/presenses are in opposition and detrimental to hermetic magic. She didn't even call God as evil, as devils. She spoke of them in regards to magic and in regard to how she didn't want it near the covenant to affect its magic.
Oh yeah, she wanted a priest that would not be very active. The one that started the big deal about blasphemy and censorship and such was your character, GIJoo.
You called God a "hostle power". I disagree with your conclusion that he is opposed to magi, but you do have some wiggle room there. But as opposed to magi as he is to demons? That is quite a stretch.
But you called God a "Hostile Power". That was a step too far and is really what triggered this whole fiasco.
Look, GiJoo comes from a conservative Jewish-American background, and he is making an effort to play a Catholic the est he knows how. And I seem to recal a player in another game who also had trouble understanding Christianity and caused her difficulties playing her character. Hmmm...
Look, Kallista saying these things in game is fine, and is even an admirable role-playing effort. But to reassert that these conclusions are correct OOC is sort of offensive to my Christian theology, and Joo has told me that it is upsetting to his Jewish theology. And I also findmyself going over the same arguments I was having with a fellow named Vortigern in another game.
There needs to be some room made for compromise and mutual understanding.
The comparison is that god is as opposed to mages as demon are opposed to mages. Both are being described in relations to Mages and Magic.
Yeah, Christians might not like god compared to demons but when it comes to hermetic magic, they are both hostile. Their presence hinders it.
I am from a Reform american Jewish background, most branches of Judaism do not have any demon. Satan doesn't exist. Hell doesn't exist. They aren't in any or our prayers or theology. The serpant spoke in the garden and was punished for it just as adam and eve were punished for their transaction.
Strict Catholicism at this time is actually fairly anti-magic and anti-mage although 1220 is friendlier than it was a couple years earlier under Innocent the III who was very anti-heretic, anti-jew (dictates against jews in any kind of public office lest they vent their wrath on christians (in 1215 at 4th Lateran council)), anti-muslim, etc... Before Innocent's death in 1216, you could say that the pope and catholic church (and thus God by christian preaching) was as opposed to and hostile to mages as they were demons. Honorarius is a more gentle soul and more known for healing despite that he is focused on a 5th crusade to bring holy land under christian control.
Oh I'll be the first to admit that I don't know as much about Catholics as say.. you know an actual Catholic. As Marko has pointed out I'm Jewish and the extent of my experience with the Catholic religion was dating a Catholic girl back in High School. However, if I was playing a Jewish character he would have also taken offense at such statements, so I figure I should be fine here eh Marko?
Exactly. I think it's great from an RP point of view! However I wouldn't be RPing Odysseus well if he didn't take offense to such statements.
a) It is Calliste's nature that she is a shapeshifter. Like her essence.
b) Who says the dominion reaches upward into the sky? And if yes - is Earth, flat or a globe (in other words, why bother with it).
PS: Why is the clothes spell such a high level - I thought there was a cheaper one on spellswiki.
Just because its her "essence" doesn't diminish the fact that rolls should be required. Like I said, any action which have some measure of consequence for failure should require rolls.
As for the clothes, dunno, I didn't design it?
Max will call for rolls if he feels needed but generally it is simple die if you are not stressed.
dolphin to eagle: simple die in no aura or dominion 1 aura at worse. It might take a try or two but it will succeed. Shape shifting takes a few seconds (1 round) to do. Even 10 tries is under a minute and all simple dice.
spotting the magi: she had swum ahead as ship was getting close so that she could change and then be flying as ship reaches port. following the ship and then watching gangplank for you to get off is at most an ease factor 3 probably if needing roll at all. Once you are seen it is eagle eye from above watching you to inn.
Eagle to human: simple die in dominion aura, it will succeed eventually. Dominion aura is not likely to be above a 2 so she will make it.
conjure dress: in dominion 2, simple die means spell goes off (Casting total 22 including aura) with chance for fatigue (70% 1 fatigue that goes away in 2 minutes for dominion 2, 40% in dominion 1)
As for why level 30, spell is from Magi of hermes, base 5, +1 touch, +2 sun, +2 treated and processed.
Where Satan is often referred to as the evil impulse within people (Freud might call it the ID) though that isn't exactly right.
There is no hell in Judaism at all and infact while the soul goes to God, the talk of the messiah is when jews will return to life and eden and this is why embalming is against religious law for some sects of jews (their bodies will be restored and they will come back alive. embalming would hinder that).
Yes, but thats no reason to not roll the dice. Also, Cities generally have a 3 Aura, as stated by the quick reference chart in RoP:Divine on page 10.
Yes, I don't really see any adverse effects of taking a couple of tries here, but it's still good form to roll the dice.
Sure, watching the specific ship and spotting the Magi as they get off is easy. However following said Magi through the hustle and bustle of a port town?
Yes it will, again I don't really see any adverse effects of taking a couple of tries here, but it's still good form to roll the dice.
Assuming Dominion 3 ( which again, should be the case unless told otherwise ) Kallista should fatigue herself. Yes, it will recover quickly, however that's not the point. You're doing spell casting in a moderately strong aura that is not Magic. There is always the chance of a botch. It is a minimal chance yes, however that is no reason not to roll.
Again, I personally think that anytime you perform either spell casting or an action that has some sort of consequence if you fail should require a roll.
There is no chance of a botch. That is the point. This is why we have max as game master. He wants rolls, he will ask for them. Foreign aura does not make any of them stress. Casting a spell in a deserted alley with no threats around is simple die.
Looking at the Image on page 10, aura varies. The church and graveyard are aura 4, castle is 3, rest of area inside the gates is 2 and fields only a 1 and beyond the town where church bells can't even be heard is likely 0.
is a pretty spooky situation!
Not to mention that you are in a Foereign Aura, aligned with a power that you consider to be hostile.
IMHO, I would say a Stress Die is required.
Thuis is the same sort of loose-playing you had always criticized Vortigern for
It is a good thing it is Max's opinion that matters. it is day and it is alley chosen by an eagle's eyesight looking down into it. What is spooky for it. Foreign AURA does not automatically make it stress.
Vortigen was called on using powers without rolls in combat and obvious conflict sitautions, such as when there was a diabolist believed present using invisibility (having shown his presence by attacking just before this.).
Nudity doesn't bother Kalliste. She doesn't mind showing off her body. The clothing is to blend in, not because she has any kind of nudity taboos.
That stats of all her forms are on her character sheet. They were determined via the rules for determining such from HoH: Mystery cults (for shape shifters, heartbeasts, skin changers, etc...). It works to a mix between her stats and those of the original form. Which is why her lion is a little weaker and does a little less damage than standard lion.
Based on play in two games now, there are some players whose opinions I do not count.
If I do not ask for dice roll then do the following.
A. Roll dices, either stress or simple dices depending on your interpretation of the situation. This could be a way to speed up the game especially for situations like combats or to the story very important spell casting.
B. Do not roll dices, if I see that it is necessary to have a few dice rolls then I ask for them.
For example if your character is making a travellers hot pot then a profession cooking roll might not be needed but if you do roll the dices then we can add a comment in the story about the hot pot either tasting great or not. Even if you would roll a stress dice and botch then I would not turn it into a near fatal burning accident. If I do not call for dices or object to your actions then go a head.
Regarding dominion auras
They do not extend from earth to heaven but rather dissipates high enough in the air just as the aura weakens outside the city.
Conflict between players
It is my interpretation that there is a conflict between players in this saga that goes beyond this game. From what I learnt it goes into other games and then perhaps into real life. I don’t know and is not that interested in blaming anyone for starting this conflict.
I have a few solutions to this issue. Either we just accept the fact that this saga where never meant to be and call it a day or we try to get along. As I have invested a few hours in crafting this saga and so have you just closing up is not an option that appeals to me but I don’t like been drawn in to conflicts between players or take sides.
If we settle on the option of just getting along that it will be each and everyone’s task of just avoiding this that you know might cause a conflict to flare up this is not more difficult that to not speaks of politics if you have a friend over for dinner and vine if the friend has a different political view. I know that this option might call for some bad role-playing but then let it be so. Change your characters if it is needed.
I will give it a week or so before I make up my mind on what to do. Sorry for the need to be blunt but this is the way I feel.
I'd love this to continue. I suggest if the disagreeing parties cannot agree to play, we roll dice on who quits, rather then dismantle the whole thing.
On buying the book:
Max, Do we have enough money to buy such a book available, or do you want GIJoo to bargain for it? Do we need to offer the seller anything beyond a few hands of silver from the chest we happen to have with us? If we have to offer sth in return, can we promise a copy of a book we have back at the covenant (to be copied out by an NPC?).
In other words: Do we just get the book or do you want to turn the acquisition into a story hook/story.
On sleeping:
Odysseus and Nestor have no (visible) Gifts, only Callista has. So we could stay anywhere - if Callista doesn't mind sleeping in animal form - outdoors. If she does, we could smuggle her in (she flies in and out through the window and takes her meals in the room). Or we just upset a few people - a bit of forgetting magic and a few silver coins should smooth the waves after.
