To be fair, as an author, at the time we wrote the book ROP: The Divine was very much available, and we assumed the whole fan base would have access to the Methods & Powers. Despite this i made every effort to include the relevant sections of the Divine book where possible, without creating too much redundancy for those who have that book, juts for ease of reference. As it happens that was a wise choice. What bothers me is that without ROP: The Divine you don't have any example saints stats -- potentially making chapter 2 The Congregation which I wrote less useful, as parts of it deal with Saints. While I can not help overall, and most of the book stands utterly independent, I am working on a fix that might be useful to all readers, with or without either book, that I hope to make available as a free download either on my blog or if David and Michelle agree on The Church page. However I am a busy bloke, so you might have to wait a few days -- but I am aware of your problem with getting the Divine book Lucius, and willing to try and go the extra mile to help if I can and Atlas agree it's OK, and [provide a few sample saints with new Powers to go with the book? I can't promise too many factors involved, but I will try.
Hey Lucius, I have done the best I can in the few minutes available to me - hope Atlas don't mind, I cite one power from ROP: The Divine as an example. This should allow you to use The Church to much greater effect without ROP: The Divine, and has a little extra stuff for everyone as a bonus. Hope enjoy, took me from work for a while --
First we need a saint
Saint Edmund
Patron Saint of England, feast day 20th November Divine Might: 50 Characteristics: Int +5, Per +5, Pre +5, Com +5, Str n/a, Sta n/a, Dex n/a, Qik n/a Size: 0 Age: n/a Confidence Score: 2 (10) Virtues and Flaws: None Personality Traits: Pious +6, Vigorous +2, Benevolent +2 Reputations: Saint Combat: n/a Soak: n/a Fatigue Levels: n/a Wound Penalties: n/a Abilities: None Powers:Apparition, Refreshing Spring, Paralyze Thieves, five more for you to design (see below) Encumbrance: 0 (0)
The Story of Saint Edmund
'This is the tale of Saint Edmund, long regarded as the Patron Saint of England, though I understand some Crusaders pay reverence to St. George who slayed the dragon' he announces… 'though I have heard that owd George was foreigner!'
'Some say four hundred years ago King Alcmund was King of Saxony, across the North Sea from here. He had no heir on account of the fact he kicked his missus when she was pregnant, and needing a son decided to go on pilgrimage to Rome and make amends. While there he was a staying in the house of a widow of noble estate, and she did see a brilliant burst of light like the sun burst from his chest and prophesied that he would give birth to a child whose fame should like the sun reach all four corners of the Earth. When he got back his missus Siawara got with sprog right quick and gave birth to young Edmund.
Over 'ere King Offa of East Anglia, for we was a nation in our own right then, had no son because his heir Fremund had got it into his head to become an hermit! Thus Offa had to go a looking for an heir, and went off on pilgrimage to the Holy Land. On the way he stopped at Alcmund's, and thought Edmund a fine fellow, so when he died on his way back he left word and his ring that Edmund was to be the new King.
Young Edmund took leave of his father who was right sad to see the young boy go, and sailed to England landing at Hunstanton in Norfolk. Where he landed he gave praise to God for his safe journey and twelve sweet crystal springs sprung up out of the ground; to this very day they cure the sick and folks take the water away in skins for those who be a needing it.
He was a good and wise King - by the time he was thirteen he knew his Latin Psalter off by heart, and at fourteen he came to be crowned King of East Anglia. During the year he prepared for his crowning he lived at Attleborough, and his crowning was carried out by Bishop Humbert who anointed him on Christmas Day with the Holy Oil, he having scarce a month turned fifteen. The coronation was held at Bures near Sudbury, where a royal palace stood in those days.The site where he was crowned is now the Church of St. Stephen on the hill overlooking the River Stour.
For ten whole years he ruled justly and well, as it is said -
'Against poor folk shut not was his gate,
His wardrobe open all needs to relieve,
Such royal mercy did his heart move
To clothe the naked and the hungry feed,
And sent he alms to folk that lay bed ridden.'
Then two Danish brothers, evildoers and Pagans, named Hubba and Inguar invaded and landed at King's Lynn with a huge army. This is how that came to be -
Some years before King Lothparck., the father of the Danish brothers was blown in a gale to the coast of East Anglia. He was received at Edmund's court and treated royally as his status deserved, and taken hunting by Edmund and his huntsman Beorn. Lothparck was a brilliant huntsmen and every one admired him; this fair put Edmund's hunter Beorn's nose out of joint! When Lothparck went off to take a ship home Beorn waylaid him in the woods and murdered him.
Lothparck's faithful greyhound uncovered his master's body, and Edmund was furious. He sentenced Beorn to be set adrift in a boat, and this was done. Fate however blew the exiled Beorn straight across the North Sea to Denmark. There he laid the blame for Lothparck's death not on himself but on Good King Edmund! The Brothers swore to avenge their father and set off for England.
The Danes rampaged up to Scotland, burning York and sacking Ely. Then they made their way down to Thetford, where they made a great camp, and prepared to finish the business that had brought them here in the first place. The King's army fought well, but they were few, and the Danish army thousands strong. Finally there was a great battle and to avert further killing Edmund was forced to flee. He hid under Hoxne bridge, but a bride and groom crossing to their wedding saw him and betrayed him to the Danes, and as a result the bridge is cursed so no newlyweds will cross it to this day. Edmund was surrounded and meekly surrendered himself to their mercy, but they had none.
They demanded he should surrender his treasure, and reign as a subordinate
King. Bishop Humbert tried to persuade him to give up, but he refused, unless Inguar accepted Christ as his Saviour and became a Christian. Edmund was tied to a tree and shot full of arrows, and then "haggled all over by the sharp points of their darts, and scarce able to draw breath, he actually bristled with them like a hedgehog." He continued to call upon Christ, so they struck off his head and carried it into Haeglisdun Wood where they threw it in a thicket.
The following Spring the Danes had left and the East Anglians went looking for the head. They found it miraculously preserved, with a wolf guarding it who led them the head by it's howls. The wolf gave up the head, and it was carried off to join the body - when the two were put together they miraculously reunited with only a thin thread like red seam showing where he had been martyred. The saint's body was brought to Bury, and their pilgrims visit the Shrine to this day.
Many kings have paid tribute to Edmund - Edward the Confessor took him as his personal saint, and too many miracles have happened to tell ye all now. Canute was a great follower of the Saint; his own father was struck dead by the wrath of the Saint when he threatened to lay hands on the shrine, and that is how it came to be that Canute gave the Liberty of Saint Edmund to the Abbey at Bury and that the Abbot rules us as the rest of the land is ruled by the King, on behalf of the King.
I think I have shown that Saint Edmund was a Glorious Saint and Martyr and much better than anything London town can provide talk of!'
Designing Powers
If you have Realms of Power: The Divine you will know that a major saint has a Divine Might of about 75 (such as one of the Apostles); a regional saint such as a Patron Saint worshipped throughout a whole country 50; and Local Saints 25. Edmund is clearly a regional Saint. Now both ROP: The Divine and The Church give the rules for Invoking a Saint, and getting them to use their powers on your behalf, and The Church gives rules for being devoted to a saint. However the Church does not actually give the stats bloc for Saints (all as Edmund above) or how to design Saintly powers, so I'll make an unofficial suggestion here.
A typical Saint's power which almost all seem to have from ROP: The Divine is Apparition; I'll cite that here by way of example only.
Apparition, 0 points, Init +20 (Imaginem) This power allows the saint to create a physical manifestation of himself. He is still immune from physical harm; weapons and items pass through the saint without effect.
OK, so how do we design Saints for Ars Magica games? Firstly, choose your saint. Entirely mythical saints have the advantage you can tailor them to your story, and not give offence to real world devotees of the Saint in question: I also however think that telling tales of the saints is a wonderful way of remembering these holy men and women, and if done in the right spirit completely compatible with respect for the faith that embodied them. Still, it's your call.
Secondly, all saints have the stats given for Edmunds above, though you could change the Personality Traits a bit. I changed Pious +3 to Pious +6 - this is a Saint, and in fact one would expect them to act piously irrespective of game mechanics, so I would never roll a saints piety, as that would be absurd!
Next up decide if this is a Divine Might 75, 50 or 25 saint, which depends on whether they are celebrated by the whole church, mainly in one nation, or just a few towns. Edmund is a national saint, so Divine might 50.
Now we need Powers for the Saint so your players can invoke their blessing using either The Church (or ROP: The Divine) rules which I will not give here, as this is intended to help those who have the former book but not the latter. Major saints have about Ten Powers, one of which they will use if successfully called upon by the devout to aid; Regional Saints about Eight; Local saints about Five.
So all we have to do now is design those powers! Oddly ROP: The Divine does not actually give rules for this process, so this is how I do it for books I work on and my own saga. Firstly we need to decide what Powers the saint should have: to do this just read up on the miracles attributed to the Saint.
Edmund has loads -- his relics are mysteriously unburned when a fire breaks out in his shrine, he can curse an enemy of England after appearing in a dream, he is associated with bestowing fertility if a maiden leads a white cow through the streets with the monks on solemn procession on his saint's day, etc, etc. We have decided he has Apparition - now we need to design seven more. Let's start with the miracle of the springs that sprung up when he landed, that sounds like an interesting power. First design it in Hermetic terms, so we have some game idea of it's power. It's a Creo Aquam effect this Power: I make it level 20 Ritual, because the water is quenching thirst and natural enough: let's assume springs made by the Saint's power lack the Divine vis one might find at the original. We know the associated form is Aquam. Now we need a formula to work out the Points and Initiative, so as ROP: the Divine does not give one I deduce from analogy it is
For a "Ritual equivalent" Power: points = magnitude, Initiative = Quickness (5 for a saint) -(the magnitude times 2).
For a Formulaic Equivalent Power: points = magnitude divide by two, Initiative = Quickness (5 for a saint) -(the magnitude divided by 2).
This is a very rough and ready formula: I normally use the rules in Realms of Power magic for Quality: Ritual Power and Quality: Great Power, then adjust them if need be by eye. You can make your own mind up if you want to go that far - this method I am giving works fine, there is no canon rules for designing saint's powers.
So we get
Refreshing Spring, 4 points, Initiative -3 (Aquam). Creates a refreshing spring of fresh water that becomes a natural feature of the environment.
We now have two powers. Let's design one more - from Aelfric we learn
Paralyse Thieves? OK, this may be appropriate to those guarding a treasure, and they may pray to Edmund for intercession and protection; so if the pious know that thieves are in their house, we need a ReCo effect, Range: Touch (for a Saint Touch is always a good default) Duration: Sun, Target: Structure - or is it group? We will go with Structure, but add 5 levels as only applies to thieves, not other people sleeping in the building. So ReCo base 5, +2 Sun, +1 Touch, +4 Structure, +1 complexity. So a formulaic level 45? I'll round up on the points.
Paralyse Thieves, 5 points, Initiative 0, (Corpus). A structure where the saints Power has been invoked is warded against thieves, and any trying to break in become paralysed once inside, unable to move till dawn and trapped in the position they stand in, their guilt obvious.
I make the penetration of this last power 25. Anyway I hope this gives you enough to go design the other powers you think appropriate, and feel free to share some Saints. You can now use Saints and chapter 2 of the The Church without ROP: The Divine -- but you still want it not least for the marvellous additional material and all the standard powers that are listed in that book.
Some more Saints for you to consider
Hopefully based on the rough notes I have given you can now design Saints, with either The Church or ROP: The Divine to hand, and make them fit your saga. Here are some more I researched from East Anglia, eastern England, with notes for Ars Magica.
ST SIGEBERT: King of East Anglia, retired to the monastic life at Bury St. Edmunds in 635. When the pagan King of the Mercians, Penda, invaded, he was forced against his will to lead the armour. He chose to ride unarmed but for an ash wand, and was slain on the field of battle, a true and holy pacificistic martyr. His feast day is January 25th, and he was popular in the city of Dunwich (which no longer appears on modern maps as it has fallen into the sea, but exists in 1220!)
ST FELIX: The Bishop of Dunwich appointed by Sigebert, he met Sigebert in France. The Pope Honorius authorised Felix as Bishop of East Anglia. He was obscure, but popular in Soham cambridgeshire from where his remains were taken out of East Anglia during a relic raid by a rival monastery. A Native Burgundian his own copy of the gospel, written in Lombard characters, was held at Eye for centuries and oaths sworn upon it - it was known as the Red Book of Eye. It is likely a Covenant may be interested in it and may also possess secrets or be a relic. His feast day is March 8th.
ST. FURSEY: An Irish contemporary of Saint Sigebert and Saint Felix who assisted in the evangelisation of the pagan Anglians. He founded a monastery at Burgh castle, a ruined Roman fort, and had a remarkable vision of Heaven and Hell which is described by Bede, and recounted I think in Heirs to Merlin. He then moved to Lagny, France to found another monastery, and is buried there.
ST. ANNA (male) King of East Anglia after Sigebert, father of five saints! They were St Jurmin, his son, and his daughters - St Etheldreda of Ely, St Ethelburga (of France), St Sexburga ( Queen of Kent), and St Withburga of East Dereham, Norfolk. SS Anna and Jurmin fell like their father fighting in battle the pagan Penda of Mercia in 654, and were originally buried at Blythburgh, but the relics were stolen by the monks of Bury in the 11th Century and successfully translated to Bury St Edmunds Abbey. St Anna is celebrated on February 23rd, and (sometimes given as Germanus or Firminus) Jurmin on May 31st
ST ETHELDREDA (aka ST AUDREY) Buried at Ely, she was a Virgin who was married twice but miraculously managed to escape the sexual attentions of her unwanted husbands by grace of God. Her fair, st Audry's Fair was renowned for the inferior gaudy knick-knacks offered, and corrupted formed the basis for the word 'tawdry', something of little value. An unfair association for a Saint!
ST BOTOLPH: A 7th Century East Anglian Bishop and Abbot, buried at Bury St Edmunds, died 680, celebrated on 17th June.
ST. WITHEBURGA has a shrine at East Dereham in Norfolk, where the churchyard features St Witheburga's well, with a reputation as a healing well. Her legend states that a white doe used to furnish her with milk, and she is always depicted with the white deer. Her body was taken under unusual circumstances, in 974, when Abbot Brithnoth of Ely led a party of armed men to Dereham, and threw a great feast. having got the folk of Dereham drunk they then stole the Saint's body and fled, and reached Brandon by the time the outraged citizens of Dereham caught up. They escaped with their lives and the Saint's relics by leaping in a boat and sailing away, while the men of Dereham gave chase along the banks and harried them with spears, darts and arrows. They made their escape however, and St Witheburga now lies in Ely Cathedral. Such was the nature of some Dark Age piety!
ST WENDREDA and ST MINDRED Possibly the same person, nothing whatsoever is known about her but as St Wendreda she is patron of a Church at March, and as St Mindred she is associated with a well at Exning in W Suffolk which was were St Etheldreda was baptized and which cures diseases of the eyes.
ST ETHELBERT: 8th Century King of East Anglia, beheaded by King Offa of Mercia (he of Offa's Dyke fame). He had come to the Mercian palace to court Offa's daughter, but the Queen, perhaps jealous, told her husband he was a spy and Offa in a hasty moment had him beheaded. Offa later repented, went on pilgrimage to Rome and founded St. Alban's Abbey in his remorse. He is patron saint of Herefordshire but has some Norfolk and Suffolk Churches.
ST HUMBERT: Bishop of East Anglia, martyred by the Danes on the same day as Edmund in 870, an obscure figure.
ST EDWOLD: Edmund's brother, retired to a hermitage at Cerne in Dorset.
ST FREMUND, Edmund's Cousin, who led the East Anglian counter attack and
massacred 40,000 Danes at Retford but was assassinated even in the moment of
victory. He was the patron saint of Dunstable Abbey (not in East Anglia).
ST WILLIAM OF NORWICH: Possibly one of the most notorious saints of all, the body of this boy was discovered, and the rumour spread that he had been murdered by the Jews in Norwich on March 24, 1144. It was said he had been scourged, crowned with thorns and crucified, and the horrific Blood Libel began a vicious cycle of anti-semitic propaganda and pogroms, culminating in East Anglia with the massacre at Bury St Edmunds in 1190 and Abbott Samson's expulsion of all Jews from the Liberty of St Edmund (West Suffolk) in that year. The Life of St William was written in the 12th Century by Thomas of Monmouth, a Norwich monk, who appears in my saga as a horrible villain... William's day is March 24th, has a Chapel in Norwich Cathedral where he is interred. Possibly he was really a victim of diabolists linked with St. Benet's Abbey??
ST ROBERT OF BURY: in 1181 Robert was found murdered, possibly by an old woman who tried to stuff his body down a well, but it was discovered (possibly by a huntsman). Anyway the Jews were blamed, and St Robert was buried in due reverence in the Abbey, and the chain of events which led to the tragedy of 1190 sparked off. More details can be found on the Chronicle of Bury Abbey by Jocelin of Brakelond, which can be read online. I do not have Robert's feast day, but his symbol is the Robin.
ST BLIDA: A (prob. mythical) Queen of East Anglia, with a Chapel at Martham, Norfolk. mother of St. Walstan.
ST WALSTAN OF BAWBURGH. Bawburgh is a village close to Norwich, where St Walstan lived out his holy life. Son of a King and Queen (see BLIDA above), he ran away from home to become a farm labourer, as wealthy and powerful princes are wont to do! The farmer' wife beat him and he was poorly treated, partly because he insisted on giving his food and shoes to the poor,, but his patience, skill and kindness won them over and they offered to make him their heir. While he worked barefoot the thorns turned away from him and he suffered no hurt. He refused but asked for the offspring of a pregnant cow he was looking after, which bore twins and led to the basis of his excellent herd. One day while ploughing in a field with a labourer he heard bells ringing and Angels telling him that he would die on Monday. His companion heard nothing till he placed his foot on Walstan's when he shared the vision.
His father has meanwhile learnt where his osn was and came to fetch him,but Walstan died, praying for all sick people and cattle, as predicted and at the moment of death a white dove flew out of his mouth. Two oxen were yoked to a cart and allowed to wander to take his body to where it should be interred, and his coffin was hauled by the oxen to Bawburgh church where the wall miracously parted to recieve his coffin - but more miraculous was he fact that the oxen and cart walked across the River Wensum as if it were dry land leaving imprints to be seen to the current (1220) day. What a source of animal vis if this is not a sacrilegious thought! At a place where they halted near the Church three sprngs appeared. Once a year labourers and their cattle made pilgrimage to Bawburg from all over Anglia, and I think this is one of the most beautiful tales of any Saint. Long live the blessed memory of St Walstan!
ST GUTHLAC OF CROWLAND: A pious hermit who chose to live out his life on a demon haunted islet in the Fens. After sufferring the demons torments for years he one day took up a whip and chased them in to the sea. Celebrated at Thorney Abbey, his cult attracted many hermits and the demon troubled.
ST LIBERATA aka St WILGEFORTIS aka ST UNCUMBER: Celebrated in the Church of Worstead, in Norfolk as St Uncumber she is depicted as a women crowned, bearded and crucified. Her picturesque legend cries out for mention, so here it is - Born the daughter of the King of Portugal, she vowed virginity, but her father arranged a marriage for her. She prayed fervently, and was granted a beard! Her indignant father crucified her. Her image was venerated by women who wished to be shot of unloved husbands,
and I see the possibility of a story here!
Final Note
I'd just like to remind readers that these are all real Saints, popular in East Anglia in the time Ars Magica, and deserve respect (dulia) regardless of your personal religious beliefs. They are extremely useful for a Stonehenge saga giving I hope an insight into the nature of folk belief in the period, and their stories being well known not just to churchmen who often have higher concerns but to the peasants, who may tell magi their stories and express a simple faith in these their guardians. I hope this will allow you to make the honest working folk of your saga a little more colourful, and make you feel a little closer to the beautiful culture of the counties of my childhood in your sagas. With a little research similar lists of Saints can be compiled for any region of any Tribunal, and I hope they do add something to your game! P_lease note I have thrown this together from stuff I had laying around very quickly,and may be a few rough spots or errors.
For the vast majority of the material in The Church, you don't need RoP:Divine. There are some references to RoP:Divine. Largely, these are just showing you how you can tie the material in the two books together, and you can safely ignore it if you don't actually own RoP:Divine.
There are some parts where it would be helpful to have access to RoP:Divine, but they are minor (although there could be more in some chapters than others). You can use the majority of the book fine if all that you own is the core ArM5 book.
When writing my parts of this book I was certainly conscious that the reader might not have access to RoP:Divine. On the other hand, we also want to give support to those players who do happen to own both.
I'm glad if it helps. ROP: The Divine is still an extremely useful book to own, and gives all the standard saints powers, some example saints, and loads more stuff than I mention in The Church but I hope Chapter 2 will be more useful to you know, and the pilgrimages, mysticism and other stuff plus devotion mechanics are all self-sufficient. The Corrupt chapter uses ROP The infernal a little maybe, but it gives full stats for the beasties in it, and that book is still in print. I don't think the Rule chapter Sheila and I wrote has any references to outside books.
The Divine has masses of stuff in it I have not touched upon so you REALLY want it, but till its reprinted I can't help more. If you have ROP The Infernal you can use that and just adapt the Methods & Powers in it etc for now?
Infernal Saints! Heaven Forfend!
Those of us who have The Divine could also help with info on Divine Methods & Powers.
Also , thanks for all the research on Saints , much appreciated.
What about a possible Sub Rosa article on Saints for each of the published Tribunals?
Say , one major Saint with stats and suggestions for 2 or 3 others.
(Which Saint do you pray to for help off-setting your busy schedule to write it.)
I guess the best source material is not translated into english though.
I would hesitate to post any actual rules or mechanics without Atlas' explicit permission, and the Methods & Powers for Holy Characters do not allow for easy summation. Still, I think The Church stands on its own. On Medieval Saints - I probably could if I ever had the time write some articles, but I'm pretty bad at it. You only get Ars books bits from em because of the support of my fellow authors and David's determined editing and prompting - I may have the flaw Incomprehensible Writer! On the Lives of the saints though, the best single source can be found here - you can download full text chapters of the bits not hyperlinked -- fordham.edu/halsall/basis/go ... /index.htm Curiously I have never usedit, as I have always researched the most obscure Saints for some reason, perhaps natural perversity! But the Golden Legend is the best sourece of all for medieval hagiography, so do have a look and design a saint or two.
Well, I finally got my hands on the book. Overall, I like it... most especially because my saga includes a PC priest, a major Benedictine monestary and a Cluniac Priory... meaning Chapers 3, 4 and 6 are going to very valuable to us. We'd discussed including some Infernal story elements in our saga but hadn't entirely figured out how... then I saw Chapter 6 and the idea of corrupt Cluniac monks just "clicked" things neatly into place. The "covenant" style creation rules for a parish church will also be getting a workout shortly.
Having now read Chapter 2, I am definately a bit disapointed that at least some basic mechanics for Saint's powers weren't reprinted to go with the Devotion rules. That's the CJs posts here, I at least have a basic grasp of the concepts now, but really Atlas... would it have killed you to toss in a sidebar with some basic info on Saints and a couple of example Saintly powers?
Overall, I'm pleased with The Church. It will be joining Lords of Men and Arts & Academy on my list of essential supplements for Ars Magic.
Heaven Forfend!
Still, I think 
But the Golden Legend is the best sourece of all for medieval hagiography, so do have a look and design a saint or two.