'The Divine' questions

I have been looking through the 'The Divine' the past few days, and I have scads of questions just about my priest character.

  1. What skill/characteristic combo should a Priest use to perform the Holy Sacraments??

  2. For a really swell sermon should he use Leadership:Inspiration?

  3. My GM has already ruled on this, and I happily bow to his authority, but I am curious as to what y'all have to say...
    Can the 2-3 methods be used for the same power. Could you use a "Purity" power and have the meditation method stack with it?

  4. Under Meditation method it says to add the Meditation skill along with Intelligence to your Effect Total. The Effect Total ALREADY includes these numbers - does that mean they double?

  5. Do a lot of the Powers seem really weak to you guys? To use a Power you need to grab TWO Major Virtues, and dump in a bunch of Skill points. What you get in return seems... smallish...

  6. Ars Notoria - If you create a character already with this as a Major Virtue, add skill points to it at creation, HOW do you increase it in the course of game play? Do you need to learn from books/teachers?

  7. When performing the Holy Sacraments you can gain a faith point per Sacrament?

7.5) Using the Eucharist as an example - if you perform the Eucharist a few times a week could you build up a few faith points?

VIII) Prolly bein' dense here... But does a Divine Effect ignore Parma Magica? It appears in the rulebook that Divine Effects ignore Auras.

Enough annoyance fer now....

  1. Are there rules for using a Saint to aid your use of a Power?

  2. What are the rules for Praying to aid your use of a Power?

ex. Could a priest pray to a saint to get a +5 for a power, and then pray for a miracle adding +8.7 to the same power roll??

I don't see why you would ever need to roll it, but I'd guess Presence + Church Lore would cover success in particularly difficult situations.

I'm not sure what you mean. If he's attempting ceremonial influence, Leadership is part of the formula. If he has the Inspirational Virtue, he can certainly give a really swell sermon.

They don't stack, but if you have a Power like Transcendence and both Meditation and Purity, you have access to more effects.


Compared to Hermetic magic, yes, the Divine Methods and Powers are pretty weak. The Divine realm is very strong, though, and things like Faith or a high Dominion aura gives holy characters a lot of advantages that magical characters don't get. To be really powerful, a character has to almost entirely devote himself to serving the Divine, much like the saints whose legendary powers are approximated in the guidelines.

Yes, or perhaps from practice or exposure.

Certain sacraments give the person for whom it is performed a temporary Faith Point, yes. I don't think you can gain more than one Faith Point per application, though.

I probably would limit that to one Faith Point from the Eucharist per character at a time.

Miracles ignore Magic Resistance, but the divine effects caused by Methods and Powers have to penetrate Magic Resistance like everything else. They don't suffer penalties in other supernatural auras, but they do get a bonus in Divine auras.

Not specifically. I suppose some saints might have powers that boost the use of Methods and Powers, but none of the ones in the book do. Can you think of an appropriate saint known for doing that sort of thing? Or a saint might have the Ceremony Ability, I suppose.

Well, using a Method and Power is basically praying already. However, the Divine could certainly intervene to aid the character in that way. I'd use the Hermetic MuVi guidelines for determining the effect level, and then proceed using the rules for praying for a miracle. Depending on the character's worthiness, need, and the urgency of the request, I suppose it could very well come to pass.

No problem. :slight_smile:

Good Responseses - thanks Much!

11) How is True Faith different from faith points? 
In ARM5 Core it says your faith points times 10 is magic resistance. 

12) If you use your faith points does that lower your faith score, or MR? 

13) What are some good guidelines for how to raise your True Faith?

There's a section in The Divine about True Faith (pages 56-60) that should answer your questions. Briefly, it changes the core so that Faith works like Confidence, giving a character a Faith Score and a number of Faith Points. Your Magic Resistance is your Faith Score x 10. Faith Points can be spent like Confidence Points, and do not give Magic Resistance.

No, they are separate. Every day a person with a Faith Score has his Faith Points replenished up to his Faith Score, though.

I just use the same guidelines for gaining True Faith in the first place. See The Divine, "Gaining True Faith during Play" page 59.

Marcus ‘Reboare’, ab Palatinus
{Mythic Companion}

‘Finisvita passuporta Purganefa’ {saying writ on shield/sword}

Intelligence -1 (forgetful {from lost memories}),
Perception +0 (Visions get in the way),
Presence -1 (does not meet eyes {often uses Sense Holy/Unholy}),
Communic +0 (always speaks in Tongues so words unemotional),
Strength +3,
Stamina +3,
Dexterity +4,
Quickness +3

Size: 0
Age: 30
FAITH: 4 (6)
Confidence Score: 1(3)

Magic Resistance: 55

Mythic Paladin,
True Faith,
Guardian Angel,
Relic, Major {Longsword},
Great Dexterity,
Improved Characteristics x5,
Heroes Birthright (x2) {at will Heal Light Wound/Fatigue self (duration Moon)} [needs more???],
Gift of Tongues,
Affinity: Single Weapon,
Puissant: Single Weapon,
Premonitions {from True Faith},
Sense Holiness/Unholiness {from Major Relic}

Deep Dark Secret, Monastic Vows, Temperance, Companion (Warhorse), Visions, Amnesia

Pious +2, Brave +3, Loyal (Church) +2, Loyal (Angel) +4

Longsword: Initiative +5, Attack +19, Defense +18, Damage +9
Spear: Initiative +5, Attack +12, Defense +12, Damage +8
Brawl: Initiative +, Attack +, Defense +, Damage +3

Soak: +20 (+STA)(+Armor)(+Guardian Angel)(+Tough)

Italian (Grammar) 5
Brawl (Grapple) 4
Riding (Horseback) 4
Athletics (Sprint) 2
Awareness (Watch) 2
Swim (Armored) 2
Single Weapon (Longsword) 10
Premonitions (Danger) 5
Thrown Weapon (Spear) 5
Sense Holy/Unholy (Unholy) 6
Concentration (Prayer) 3
Theology (Heresy) 2
Divine Lore 2

Full Chain Armor, Longsword {major relic}, Metal re-enforced gauntlets, Warhorse, Saddle, Heater Shield, Dagger, Hatchet, Satchel, Holy Cross Pendant, Gray Cloak, Spangenhelm, 2 spears/javelins, knee-high boots of good quality.

Shoulder-length blond/gold hair, hazel/gold eyes, 6’2” 215#, rather muscular, chiseled features, built like a triathlete. Seems to mumble to himself upon occasion (talking to angel), but has VERY piercing stare. Comes across as VERY focus & VERY intense, and yet oddly ‘not all there’ betimes…

From God, to the Pope, to the ‘Major General of Priests’ comes a very secretive tradition. Their symbol is a white cross on a black background overlayed with a 7-pointed gold star (point up & fork down).
The Major General maintains ‘The Seven Paladins’ whose sole task is to ‘seek out & end’ (politically, diplomatically, or physically) Magic (Hermetic, Hedge, etc) being used for/from Mortal Sin. This could be a murder to fuel a Ritual, invisibility used in abduction/rape, etc.
The Paladins are to find/prevent ‘Mortal Sins used for magic’, or ‘Mortal Sins caused by magic’.
As each Paladin ‘shuffles off this mortal coil’ he is replaced. The Major General seeks out a rather accomplished warrior who also suffers GREATLY under guilt/sin. As penitence the warrior agrees to undergo induction into the Paladins. This begins as taking Monastic vows, continues as taking Holy Orders, but ends before being able to perform Sacraments. The finale of the seven month ritual involves the Paladin’s soul entering purgatory, and the Paladin’s body being improved. The newly christened Paladin awakens on the sarcophagus/altar of the Paladin he is replacing. Over this tableau the Major General of Priests continually prays for the Miracle to complete the transformation.
Upon awakening, the Paladin is filled with the Holy Spirit, introduced to his Guardian Angel, overflowing with love/joy, BUT suffering almost total amnesia. The Paladin mostly keeps his personality (now of highest ethics, morals, & piety), knows all the skills he ever learned, but only remembers vaguely ‘bits&pieces’ of his former life. These spectral memories manifest as the VISIONS flaw.
Once beginning his missions the Paladin improves his relationship with his Guardian Angel. The Guardian Angel is in vague emotional contact with the Angels of the other Paladins, and can roughly know the locations of the other Paladins. (One Paladin is always stationed with the Major General of Priests) The Guardian Angel helps interpret the promptings of the Holy Spirit within the Paladin, teaches what available skills the Paladin wants to learn, and guides the Paladin on his missions.

Marcus awakens to the prayers of Saint Dominic. After learning what he has become, getting no answers about his forgotten past from Dominic, and meeting his Guardian Angel ‘Theal’, Marcus finished his training (in secret). He then took Eucharist from the Pope Honorius III (gaining two faith points!) before beginning his first missions of delivering messages to Hermetic Covenants. On his trusty gray Warhorse ‘Artax’ Marcus embarks on his first missions for the Holy Church.
His Holy Longsword is reputed to be the one used by the ‘disciple of Christ’ to cut off the soldier’s ear before they arrested Jesus. This Major Relic has the additional power of ‘Sense Holy/Unholy’ and confers 100 skill points for its use.

Marcus arrives at the covenant on rumors of Infernal Magic in the area….


a little help with... "Heroes Birthright (x2) {at will Heal Light Wound/Fatigue self (duration Moon)} " -- could this work??[/b][/u]

a little help with... "Heroes Birthright (x2) {at will Heal Light Wound/Fatigue self (duration Moon)} " -- could this work??