The Gentle Gift and Similar Virtues

Maybe you use the -3 malus but in our game, not. Gift = baaad.
Blatant gift = very baaad.

{Noble's Parma}

The rules don't state that you get a -3 on social rolls, they state that after you've explained to people that it's the magic that makes them feel distrust they might be more likely to trust you, but you still get the -3 penalty.

The effect of the gift is a lot more than just a -3. The effect of GG is that you don't even have to explain that you're a wizard, people simply treat you like a normal person from the start.
If you treat the gift purely as a -3 on all social rolls, GG is indeed no major virtue. That just depends on how important social interaction is in your saga.

The introduction text in the book speaks of a strange woman that seems to interact with the fire fairies and they make some sort of arrangement. If she would have had Gentle Gift, the villagers probably would have spoken of a courageous noble lady, backed up by the power of righteousness, that drives away the fire spirits.
To some players there is no difference, because the end result is the same. To others it is important how the mundane world perceives their character.

Which, according to Hedge Magic, is why it should be a Hermetic Virtue. Hermetic Virtues can be taken by Gifted characters only. Supernatural Virtues can be taken by anyone.

I think that since The Gift's thematic importance has been enhanced in this edition, it is right that The Gentle Gift takes up a magus's Major Hermetic Virtue 'slot'. It is a major decision for a character to be Gentle Gifted, as it will likely affect that character's whole outlook.

Mark

The Virtues you mention offset the effects of The Gift in certain circumstances. Aura of Ennobled Presence is the same. They do not provide a blanket effect.

Currently there is no way that the social impact of The Gift can be negated in toto, through spell or Virtue excepting The Gentle Gift itself. That makes it a major part of a character's identity and magic, and therefore a Major Hermetic Virtue. IMO, it is because there is no way to circumvent The Gift that makes The Gentle Gift so important.

Naturally, if your saga makes little of The Gift's effect, or desires an easy get-out, then it may be worth changing.

Mark[/i]

I do like the blatant gift being major though. Having it can be fun for roleplaying so can variants on the gift that make it more personalized to a specific magi than the standard. If you are willing to let other players take the limelight in dealing with mundanes then I would always go for blatant.

Exactly. That's what people always forget about the gift: the penalty is more a side-effect than anything else. The first effect of the gift are roleplaying ones.

Reducing it to the penalty is doing it little justice

We have a few House Rules regarding Gentle Gift:

  1. We treat Gentle Gift as a Major Supernatural Virtue.

  2. Magi apprenticed in House Jerbiton may select Gentle Gift as their house virtue in conjunction with a minor Hermetic Flaw

We decided to do this as it seemed like in all the games we played players who chose Gentle gifted ended up being at a big disadvantage if the campaign was not heavy with mundane interactions in comparison to players who chose a virtue that gave a straight up magic or experience advantage. We thought House Jerbiton should have a slight discount as it was thematically appropriate for that house.

Anyway, that's what we did and it seems to be working out well. It leaves an option to have both Gentle Gifted and a Major hermetic, with a slightly higher ratio being Jerbiton.

Oh, IIRC, david chart explained it was a major hermetic virtue to stress both its importance and its rarity.

Before, every magus who wanted to have some social interaction would pick it (Hell, I did :laughing: ), with the more psychopathic magi taking Blatant Gift. There was no middle ground.

Oh, and if your campain is gonna be action-oriented, why pick it at all? Note also that, to me, if a player takes it, that means he'll want roleplay and interaction with mundanes, things he should also seek out on his own

Salvete Sodales!

There seem to be many who think that the GG shouldn't be considered as a hermetic virtue any longer but as a supernatural one, and there are good reasons for this - BUT:

You might reconsider if you have a look at the GiveBlessing and SuccurroMagicam guidelines. GG is most certainly aligned to the magical realm, so neither those scottish hedgies nor educated magi would have much trouble in surpressing its effect. Sure, if they used it continously, they would have to deal with warping, but many don't have to do so, and you can imagine what will happen, if a hermetic mage finally manages the breakthrough to integrate this into (let's say) the CrVi guidelines? He will at once develop a momentary ritual so that in the future of the order the Gift would be no real problem any longer.

Given these two traditions' guidelines it is probably a good idea to reconsider the classification of the hermetic and the supernatural categories of virtues completely. Perhaps I will start a thread on this one of these days.

Up to then,

Vale,
Alexios ex Miscellanea