The uncoolness of Parma Magica

"And Trianoma stood before the mighty Flambeau challenging him to test her Parma Magica. Really? he said. Really, she answered. He shot a Pilum of Fire at her and it just bounced off. Interesting, he said and then made a tree fall down (targeted) upon her. Trianoma died on the spot. Interesting, he said again."

From a strictly functional perspective, I would argue that the School of Vilano is addressed in the section of Magic Resistance and Aiming (ArM5, 85-86) where it gives examples of how MR might function in different scenarios and how one can circumvent MR.

It isn't named there because the different combat schools aren't really defined until the Flambeau section of HoH: S as that was necessary to give Flambeau magi a bit more flexibility in terms of House Virtue while retaining an emphasis on combat (Puissant Ignem or Perdo are nice, but not as broadly applicable as most other House Virtues).

Beyond that, the vast majority of potential targets in Mythic Europe either have no MR or can have their resistance breached with relative ease by using the Penetration ability in concert with Arcane and Sympathetic Connections. As such, it makes sense that the Order would generally favour spells that don't require Finesse to be effective.

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From a strictly functional perspective, I would argue that the School of Vilano is addressed in the section of Magic Resistance and Aiming (ArM5, 85-86) where it gives examples of how MR might function in different scenarios and how one can circumvent MR.

The new rules are there but not the set of spells that would emerge from this.

Beyond that, the vast majority of potential targets in Mythic Europe either have no MR or can have their resistance breached with relative ease by using the Penetration ability in concert with Arcane and Sympathetic Connections. As such, it makes sense that the Order would generally favour spells that don't require Finesse to be effective.

I don't agree. Targets with no MR are of little interest to magi. Also taking out these targets (i.e. ordinary humans) with spells such as Ball of Abysmal Flame would cause to much attention. More, Finesse effective spells would work just as good on targets with no MR. Why not focus on spells that work on everybody?

I can answer your question from my own perspective as an a person who plays a non-combat magus. The reason why I would not focus on spells that affect everyone equally is that they are generally harder to use and while targets with no MR might be of little interest to the magi the opposite it not necessarily the case.
Spells that ignore MR require scores in finesse and often a requisite or supply of ammunition as well as having higher levels for equal damage. When I play I generally just want a single combat spell to insure that my mighty magus will not be killed by lowly bandits with no MR. I dont really have a need to cast spells on targets with MR and in fact I rarely need to cast offensive spells on targets without MR either. "Pilum of fire" or "The call to slumber" are the go-to choices for pretty much every magus in my group all for the same reason. We just dont want to die by petty bandits.
When we might one day need spells to affect target with MR it is in all likelihood going to be determined by our individual specialities what sort of magic each magus chooses.

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You're talking about Feng Shui, right? :wink:

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Well, there are a few such spells in the core book such as Pit of the Gaping Earth and Cascade or Rocks, but I do agree that including more such spells probably would have been a good idea.

As for why they weren't, I can see two probable reasons.

  1. Such spells are highly circumstantial - no chance of crushing a dragon under a tree if it's not standing under one. Furthermore, writing up such spells is complicated as the actual effects are dependent upon the size of said tree and ultimately under the SGs discretion.
  2. As a corollary to the above, Aimed combat spells don't gain much from high Casting Totals or Mastery which means there's little benefit to learning them as Formulaic Spells and they're probably cast Spontaneously most of the time.

I can answer your question from my own perspective as an a person who plays a non-combat magus.

Very good. Hire two more grogs next time and don't waste your time on combat spells that only will get you into trouble with the Quaesitoris. :slight_smile:

An some ReHe10 spell will cause +5 to +10 damage depending on the size and shape of the item thrown (iirc there is a sample spell, acorns for fun, at rehe5 that does +8 if you use wooden arrow shafts). Ass aid, a herbal or Rego specialist (casting total including the die 25+) can spont those all day long. No need to have it memorized.

I see your problem. I also see that now you are just being morose, not accepting other points of view because they contradict your assumption. I do not see how this is constructive...

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For my own experience, limited as it may be, the bigger spells have their places. The smaller spells have their places. There seem to be three parts of this discussion: The effects of Parma Magica is thematically silly and uncool (I disagree, but see the point); Fighting monsters with magic is better with lower level spells, and mundanes you can kill with either low or high; And how to fight other magi.
I usually see adventuring magi having a mix of high level and low level spells, and most monster combats start with the high level spell to test magic resistance, followed by low level spells for effect if needed. Specifically fighting magi, any magus who is regular adventurer is going to be ignoring to wound penalties very quickly, so penetrating with Pilum of Fire won't help.
As far as low level spells being as good at dealing with mundanes, that's generally true, but I prefer a more indirect approach. Like.. hiring a prostitute to get an Arcane Connection to a corrupt merchant baron, and having him inexplicably die of a sudden onset of plague half a season later. For immediate combat need, I would much rather kill a mundane outright instead of giving them wound penalties and letting them get more attacks off (even if it's less likely to succeed).

Well, for me this is very informative. I did not know that this issue has been up in supplements for example.

Hire two more grogs next time and don't waste your time on combat spells

Just about the best idea anyway.

Besides, possibly the best combat spell in the current edition (barring intangible tunnels and derivatives), is the Call to Slumber - it is in fact so effective that it is discouraged at my local gaming table. Not banned, just discouraged.

Or learn weapon skills, a bunch of personal wards, and enough MuCo to increase your size to +2 (but not your weapon's; c.f the pink dot). More fun than hiding behind shield grogs.

And my magus chooses to be really good at combat. To each their own.

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Absolutely! But do you see everything in terms of combat? Do you insist that your entire troupe see everything in terms of killing-power?

Or learn weapon skills

This seems like a waste of time unless you area magus with a special interest into the subject

MuCo to increase your size to +2

Not to be recommended if you do not want to draw attention to yourself but an interesting example regarding MR. Would a strike from a magically enhanced body be resisted? If not why is the pink dot sword resisted?

A punch from a magically enhanced magus is resisted.

Normally, the physical attacks of a magus under an ongoing magical effect are indeed resisted, but there are exceptions where the 'magic' constitutes part of the target's Essential Nature:

  • The bite of a Bjornaer Maga in wolf form.
  • Vitkir's rune-enhanced spear.
  • The attacks of a fire elemental.
  • Sword of a faerie knight

To whit, a Gruagach who used Give/Shape to enhance his Size to +5 would have his kicks and sword blows resisted, but can throw boulders or use an up-rooted tree as a cudgel against pesky magi.

There does tend to be some vagueness around magi under the effects of longevity rituals (in so much as they should arguably also be resisted, but people tend to ignore them).

I would rule that if you are hit with a flaming sword the flames may be resisted but not the sword. So yeah, invisible swords are tough to defend against.

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Well the fact that they cause Warping could be taken as evidence that Longevity Rituals constitute an ongoing effect, they have to be specifically designed with the subject in mind and have a rather unusual Duration which hints at their being imperfectly integrated into MT.

Either way, I would thus argue they are part of the target's Essential Nature.