Thomas ex Tremere (Development)

Play by Post Campaigns Ars Magica 5th Edition: Light of Andorra
21

I assume you mean Disciples of the Worm when you say Cult of the Worm.

I think the concept is sound and it looks like an interesting character. The main problem I can see is a role playing problem. The DotW are described as being almost universally abhorred. Not a good thing for the covenant to associate itself with, especially when it's trying to engage in some important political maneuvers.

So, if you tell us ahead of time that you're a member, then I wonder why we'd accept you. But if you don't tell us and we ever find out about it, I can't imagine that going very well either.

Since this is a game, the vote for membership is really just a rubber stamp. But I worry that things will take a real hit to verisimilitude if we embrace a necromancer with open arms. Or am I misunderstanding how much necromancy is accepted in the Order?

22

Also, aren't Inscription on the Soul and Spirit Familiar minor Mystery Virtues for Hermetic Spirit Magic? Likewise Potent Magic is also a Mystery Virtue. Are these properly something you can take as one of your starting Virtues?

23

I did indeed! Brain fart when transcribing stuff.

Well, given that two of the houses can trace some of their roots to it, it's not something that's unheard of. Plus, the Tremere actively make use of Necromancers (both corporeal and spiritual), so it's not like it's a big secret.

It's a Mystery Cult (emphasis on mystery) for a reason! It's not like he's going to shoot his mouth off about being a member. Also, while most Magi may not like it, it says right below that:

"Yet it seems clear that in fact the Worm Cult merely seeks magical knowledge and power by an unusual and some would say unsavory method. No one is going to admit membership, howeverand while there are rumors that the secrets of the Disciples have saved the Order many times, and that they are an altruistic group dedicated to protecting magi and serving the code occasionally surface, no one really believes them"

Seems to me that it would make for some fairly interesting stories, no? So no, the covenant isn't getting some big scary CotW Necromancer! They're getting some Tremere Necromancer... and the backing of the house. As for how much Necromancy is or isn't accepted in the order, I really think it depends on who you ask, after all, there's nothing against it in the code! In fact, Boni himself was going to offer Guorna membership before Tremere and Tytalus took care of that little problem.

24

Oh, I think it would make some great stories (particularly with Lucas who essentially grew up at a monastery). That's my quandary - how do we justify letting a necromancer into the covenant?

25

Very easily, and two reasons jumps to mind. Like it or not, there's nothing in the code against it (again, the Tremere are very open with the practice). Second, the covenant already has a Tremere NPC Magus, so the idea that they take another, in exchange for support from the House isn't a crazy idea.

26

True, but there's a real difference between tolerating something and inviting it into your house. There's no law against not being a jerk. But I wouldn't want my daughter dating one.

That's what I come back to. Lucas respects Vocis very much. If Vocis accepts Thomas and speaks on his behalf, that might be enough to convince Lucas.

But are we really getting support from House Tremere in exchange for accepting Thomas?

27

Very true! But this is one of those, do the benefits outweigh your personal aversion moments. Also, the less religious among the Order, probably don't have the same objections.

Well there you go. House Tremere is always an interesting entity in any campaign and the amount of support they provide/what they ask in return can vary wildly, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see, Also, if Vocis promises support, then that's on him and his superiors in the house to provide (as NPCs they fall under Markos purview) as they deem appropriate. Isn't that how politics works? You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours.

28

Fwiw, Guiverna is Egyptian Pagan, which is (as best I can recall, as my Egyptian mythology books are still packed away) very strongly oriented on death and beyond...maybe she can see some common ground to talk about and work on. Especially if he's hot.

29

Hah! I'm sure they can find plenty of common ground!

30

You people have so many issues...
sigh
:mrgreen:

Just to get this out there, don't invoke me as an authority as a matter of rhetoric. Many try and I respond the same. It is a troupe game and I am but the first amongst equals. Everyone gets to run stories, everyone gets to pay NPC's, everyone gets to weigh in on rulings. In regard to rulings on RAW, I defer to The Fixer.
Nevertheless, I do often voice opinions, and due to no fault of mine, people give weight to my words. With great power comes great responsability.
So with that, my opinion is that it is no big deal. No one else has to know one's cult affilation unless the Cabal Legacy Flaw is involved. Also, we have had "necromancers before. Octavian in the past and Arachne now. As for Tremere support, you have had it all along and just can't see it. There has always been a Tremere present, and we have maintained independant status for generations. They have always been in the same tower

Now I do have some issues. First, it woud be most helpful if you were to repost instead f just editing. We loose the history of evolving ideas, and because of issues with my &%$+@!= phone, I have yet to scroll up/back and take a look.
Potent Magic is not a Mystery Virtue, it was a new Virtue created as a solution to the Focus issue. However, "ghosts" is to broad for a Minor Focus/Potency. It is half of "ghosts & corpses" aka Necromancy, a Major Virtue. Just "spirits" is also Major.
As for The Disciples of the Worm, I am not to familiar with them. I am of the opinion that most of the example cults are meh. They are but one route into necromancy. I would almost prefer a secret in-house Tremere cult. Also, I mentioned Abaddon. He is mentioned in the Val-Negra chapter of Faith & Flame. His is a totally different cult. And according to legend, he is the most powerful Necromancer that the Order has ever produced.
Research that guy in game.
Other stuff, not sure what it is but other stuff came to mind reading the last few comments.
I like the warrior-wizard idea. Sad that you quit the idea so quickly. I was hoping Roberto found a kindred spirit :smiley:
But necromancy can be fun.
Still, it does creep some people out. You will need to demonstrate value to them. Learn some healing and telepathy. Always useful. Make charged items for others as gifts.
And dont take meanings from extention :slight_smile:

31

Ghosts seems just right to me for a minor, it might be on the larger side of things for a minor (consider for a moment how broad Healing is, and it's a minor too), but Necromancy is on the smaller side of things for a Major. Spirits are a major and Ghosts make up just a fraction of all Spirits, so again, it feels right to me. Nobody else seems to have raised an objection, but I'd like to hear their two cents.

That said, since he's going to initiate Major Potent and a Focus in Necromancy, I'm going to swap out the Potent in Ghosts for something else.

-Channels Inner Mr. Burns- Excellent

I can do that, I just didn't want to clutter up the thread. That and I wanted to make it easier to find the character, post one and all that.

I'm not attached to the Disciples of the Worm, if there's a better cult plot wise that works, by all means! Also, there could easily be an in house Tremere cult based off of the Dacian Necromancers that were integrated into the House.

I liked it too, however I couldn't quite make him work, not without some major retooling of the character.

Indeed it does, but it's a very handy thing to have around. Oh and the plan was to certainly branch out eventually!

32

Ok folks, tear it apart! Here's how Thomas spent the past fifteen years.

Cycle One (Five Years): 20/20

Spends a season serving the House (1 Season)
Initiates Magical Focus - Ghosts / Loses Focus in Certamen (1 Season)
Works on Lab (1 Season) (+2 Exposure)
Binds a familiar (1 Season) (+2 Exposure)
Learns Spells (1 Seasons) (+2 Exposure)
150xp (15 Seasons) + (30xp Book Learner)

Cycle Two (Five Years): 20/20

Spends a season serving the House (1 Season)
Learns Spells (1 Seasons) (+2 Exposure)
Initiates Greater Potent Magic - Necromany / Gains Study Requirement / 10xp Cost (1 Season)
Initiates Greater Magical Focus - Necromany /Loses Minor Magical Focus - Certamen, Gains Difficult

Spontaneous Magic / 10xp Cost (2 Seasons)
Create a Talisman (2 Seasons) (+4 Exposure)
130xp (134 Seasons) + (30xp Book Learner)

Cycle Two (Five Years): 20/20

Spends a season serving the House (1 Season)
Works on Lab (2 Seasons) (+4 Exposure)
Learns Spells (5 Seasons) (+10 Exposure)
Creates Spells (4 Seasons) (+8 Exposure)
Enchants Item (2 Seasons) (+4 Exposure)
Reworks Familiar's Bond (1 Season) (+2 Exposure)
50xp (5 Seasons) + (30xp Book Learner)

330xp Advancement + 40xp Exposure + 90xp Book Learner - 460xp

Spells Learned:

Arming the Legion of the Dead (Potent 7)
MuMe(Te) 70, Touch, Moon, Group
Allows Ghosts (up to 10,000) to use their entire 'kit', granting missile attacks, the ability to engage in field engineering and the use of siege weapons.

Call the Fallen Eagles From the Mist (Potent 7)
ReMe65, Touch, Moon, Group
Used on a battlefield, summons the dead (up to 10,000) and grants control. Ghosts won't directly oppose their reason for remaining on earth.

Incantation of Summoning the Dead (Potent 7)
ReMe40, Arc, Conc, Ind
Call up a person's ghost. You must either be on the spot where they died or have the corpse. Alternately you can summon any ghost that haunts the area you are in if you know its full name.

Spectral Quinreme (Potent 7)
MuMe(He)50 Eye, Moon, Structure
Makes a spectral ship suficiently solid for humans to sail upon her and store cargo safetly within her hold.

Swords of Silver and Moonlight (Potent 7)
MuMe(Te)40, Eye, Sun, Ind
Makes the metal accouterments of a ghost solid.

The Face in the Mirror (Potent 7)
ReMe35, Eye, Sun, Ind
Forces a ghost to possess a magus. Magus remains in control but can use the ghost's skills/mentally communicate with it. Raising Parma usually purges the ghost from the body.

Voices From Hollow Spaces (Potent 7)
ReMe35, Voice, Ring, Ind
Binds ghosts to objects or places.

Spells Created:

Peering into the Unresting Mind (Potent 7)
InMe 45, Arc, Mom, Ind
By means of this spell the caster contacts a ghost which has not yet passed to final judgement, and draws a set of knowledge from the remains of it’s mind about a specific topic or question. The caster must have an arcane conenction to the ghost he wishes to question, and typically the unhallowed corpse of the target is used.

Blessing of Eternal Joy (Potent 7)
ReMe 35, Arc, Ring, Ind
This spell connects the caster to ghost of a dead person for whom they possess the arcane connection (or body), and changes the ghost’s mental state to one of happiness and joy.
Base 5 (Control a natural emotion)

Perpetual Torture of the Restless Dead (Potent 7)
PeMe 35, Arc, Ring, Individual
This spell connects the caster to ghost of a dead person for whom they possess the arcane connection (or body), and inflicts pain upon the ghost.
Base 4 (I use the PeCo guideline of cause a person pain, adapted to Me to apply to spirits)

Vis Earned: 58/63 (Three Cycles)

Familiar: Bond Strength 85, 17 pawns

Longevity Ritual: Level 40, 14 Pawns

Talisman: Inscription on the Soul, 0/15 Pawns Used

Skull - +5 destroy or control ghosts

Enchanted Items: 12 Pawns

Incantation of Summoning the Dead - 70
ReMe40, Arc, Conc, Ind
Call up a person's ghost. You must either be on the spot where they died or have the corpse.

Alternately you can summon any ghost that haunts the area you are in if you know its full name.
24 uses per day (+5), Item Maintains Concentration (+5), Penetration (+20)

Ring of Warding Against Spirits - 50
ReMe 30, Touch, Ring, Circle
Ghost w/ Magic Might 30 or less can't enter/leave
24 uses per day (+5), Penetration (+15)

Lab:

Size: 0
Refinement: 0
Quality: +1
Upkeep: +2
Safety: +2
Warping: 0
Health: 0
Aesthetics: +3

Mentem: +1
Ghosts: +16
Vis Extraction: +2

Virtues:

Familiar: (To be made)
Flawless Equipment: +2 Quality, +2 Upkeep, +2 Vis Extraction (Free)
Greater Feature - Necromantic Circle: +2 Aesthetics, +3 Necromancy (3)
High Organized: +1 Quality (Free)
Lesser Guardian - Ghost: +1 Safety, +1 Necromancy (1)
Magic Item - Necromantic Summoning Circle: +12 Necromancy (Free)
Servant - Ghost: +1 Aesthetics, +1 Safety, +1 Mentem (Free)
Superior Construction: +1 Aesthetics, +1 Safety (Free)

Flaws:

Greater Focus - Necromantic Summoning Circle: -2 Quality, +4 Necromancy (3)
Inhabitants - Ghosts: -1 Aesthetics, -1 Safety, +1 Necromancy (1)

33

Here's what he looks like fifteen years post Gauntlet.

Thomas ex Tremere
Age: 41

Confidence 1 (3)

Warping: 1 (9)

Int: 2
Per: 1
Pre: 1
Com: 1
Str: 0
Sta: 1
Dex: 0
Qik: 0

Virtues:

Affinity - Rego/Mentem
Book Learner
Greater Potent Magic - Necromancy
Inoffensive/Alluring - Ghosts
Inscription on the Soul
Lead Worker
Major Magical Focus - Necromancy
Puissant/Affinity - Magic Theory
Second Sight
Spirit Familiar

Flaws:

Ambitious
Cabal Legacy - Cult of Worms
Difficult Spontaneous Magic
Favors - Fellow Cult Members
Magic Spirit Companion
Mentor - Vocis
Study Requirement
Weak Spontaneous Magic

Abilities: 170xp

Artes Liberales (Ritual): 1 (5xp)
Athletics (Running): 1 (5xp)
Awareness (Alertness): 1 (5xp)
Bargain (Magi): 1 (5xp)
Brawl (Dodging) 1 (5xp)
Charm (Magi): 1 (5xp)
Cult Lore (Initiating Others): 4 (50xp)
Code of Hermes (Defense): 1 (5xp)
Concentration (Spell): 1 (5xp)
English - Native (Prose): 5 (75xp)*
England Lore (Politics): 2 (30xp)*
Etiquette (Magi): 1 (5xp)
Finesse (Rego): 1 (5xp)
Folk Ken (Magi): 1 (5xp)
Guile (Magi): 1 (5xp)
Intrigue (Magi): 1 (5xp)
Latin (Hermetic Use): 4 (50xp)
Leadership (Ghosts): 4 (50xp)
Magic Theory (Mentem): 6 (105/70xp) (+2 Puissant)
Order of Hermes Lore (Politics): 1 (5xp)
Parma Magica (Ignem): 4 (50xp)
Penetration (Mentem): 4 (50xp)
Philosophiae (Ritual): 1 (5xp)
Profession - Scribe (Copying): 1 (5xp)
Second Sight (Ghosts): 4 (50xp)
Swim (Not Drowning): 1 (5xp)

Arts: 255xp

Creo:
Intelligo: 10 (55xp)
Muto: 10 (55xp)
Perdo: 5 (15xp)
Rego: 15 (120/80xp)

Animal:
Aquam:
Auram:
Corpus:
Herbam: 10 (55xp)
Ignem:
Imaginem:
Mentem: 15 (120/80xp)
Terram: 10 (55xp)
Vim:

Cords:

Gold: 1
Silver: 2
Bronze: 3

Spells: 15xp Mastery

Arming the Legion of the Dead (Potent 7)
MuMe(Te) 70, Touch, Moon, Group
Allows Ghosts (up to 10,000) to use their entire 'kit', granting missile attacks, the ability to engage in field engineering and the use of siege weapons.

Aura of Ennobled Presence
MuIm 5, Per, Sun, Ind
+3 on rolls to influence, lead or convince others

Blink Step
ReCo 10, Per, Mom, Ind
Moves up to 5 paces, instantly
Mastery 1 - Fast

Breaking the Captain's Batton
PeMe 20, Voice, Mom, Group
Targets ceases to be able to co-ordinate as a trained group

Call the Fallen Eagles From the Mist (Potent 7)
ReMe65, Touch, Moon, Group
Used on a battlefield, summons the dead (up to 10,000) and grants control. Ghosts won't directly oppose their reason for remaining on earth.

Coerce the Spirits of the Night
ReMe 20, Voice, Conc, Ind
Makes a ghost obey you. Com + Leader + (Misc) to see how effective.

Endurance of the Berserkers
ReCo 20, Per, Sun, Ind
Ignore wound/fatigue penalties

Incantation of Summoning the Dead (Potent 7)
ReMe40, Arc, Conc, Ind
Call up a person's ghost. You must either be on the spot where they died or have the corpse. Alternately you can summon any ghost that haunts the area you are in if you know its full name.

Lay to Rest the Haunting Spirit
PeMe 10, Voice, Mom, Ind
If the spell penetrates the resistance of a ghost or similar spirit, it loses 10 Might.

Peering into the Unresting Mind (Potent 7)
InMe 45, Arc, Momentary, Ind
By means of this spell the caster contacts a ghost which has not yet passed to final judgement, and draws a set of knowledge from the remains of it’s mind about a specific topic or question. The caster must have an arcane conenction to the ghost he wishes to question, and typically the unhallowed corpse of the target is used.

Perpetual Torture of the Restless Dead (Potent 7)
PeMe 35, Arc, Ring, Individual
This spell connects the caster to ghost of a dead person for whom they possess the arcane connection (or body), and inflicts pain upon the ghost.

Ring of Warding Against Spirits (Potent 7)
ReMe 30, Touch, Ring, Circle
Ghost w/ Magic Might 30 or less can't enter/leave
Mastery 1 - Penetration

Ring of Warding Against Spirits (Potent 7)
ReMe 50, Touch, Ring, Circle
Ghost w/ Magic Might 50 or less can't enter/leave
Mastery 1 - Penetration

Shriek of the Impending Shafts
InHe 15, Per, Sun, Hear
+9 Def vs Wood, Dodge Missiles fired from 10+ paces

Spectral Quinreme (Potent 7)
MuMe(He)50 Eye, Moon, Structure
Makes a spectral ship suficiently solid for humans to sail upon her and store cargo safetly within her hold.

Swords of Silver and Moonlight (Potent 7)
MuMe(Te)40, Eye, Sun, Ind
Makes the metal accouterments of a ghost solid.

The Call to Slumber
ReMe 10, Voice, Mom, Ind
Target falls asleep

The Face in the Mirror (Potent 7)
ReMe35, Eye, Sun, Ind
Forces a ghost to possess a magus. Magus remains in control but can use the ghost's skills/mentally communicate with it. Raising Parma usually purges the ghost from the body.

Trust of Childlike Faith
PeMe 10, Eye, Diam, Ind
Target loses judgement and believes almost any lie for the duration. 6+ Int to resist.

Voices From Hollow Spaces (Potent 7)
ReMe35, Voice, Ring, Ind
Binds ghosts to objects or places.

Personality:

Ambitious +2
Loyal +3
Serious +2

Lab:

Size: 0
Refinement: 0
Quality: +1
Upkeep: +2
Safety: +2
Warping: 0
Health: 0
Aesthetics: +3

Mentem: +1
Ghosts: +16
Vis Extraction: +2

Virtues:

Familiar: (To be made)
Flawless Equipment: +2 Quality, +2 Upkeep, +2 Vis Extraction (Free)
Greater Feature - Necromantic Circle: +2 Aesthetics, +3 Necromancy (3)
High Organized: +1 Quality (Free)
Lesser Guardian - Ghost: +1 Safety, +1 Necromancy (1)
Magic Item - Necromantic Summoning Circle: +12 Necromancy (Free)
Servant - Ghost: +1 Aesthetics, +1 Safety, +1 Mentem (Free)
Superior Construction: +1 Aesthetics, +1 Safety (Free)

Flaws:

Greater Focus - Necromantic Summoning Circle: -2 Quality, +4 Necromancy (3)
Inhabitants - Ghosts: -1 Aesthetics, -1 Safety, +1 Necromancy (1)

34

IMO, because that's a way to do such "invisibility rings", and an easy one at that.
It's skimmed over 99% of the time, but magic items aren't intelligent. So if you want them to do something, you need a trigger, which may either be a linked trigger, or a normal item trigger.
So, IMO, an easy trigger for an invisibility ring is "activate when someone puts on the ring, deactivate when it's put out": There's a need for a way to tell the item to stop concentrating.

It gets worse.
He took Cabal Legacy, in order to begin the game with mystery virtues/flaws. So his membership isn't secret (even if some may ignore it, of course), and he's often perceived as speaking for the cult :-/

However, I don't see him being a necromancer posing a problem per se. It may if he brings a horde of walking deads with him, frightening all our neighbors, of course, but that's something else. For what it's worth, Arachné would probably like him being a necromancer, since binding corpses and ghosts is a good way to strengthen the covenant's defenses.

So if there's a problem, it's with the Cult membership.
Hum... Nithyn, do you really need the mystery virtues? Scrapping them and the flaw would free 2 points toward taking Major Potent Magic in Necromancy, which, IMO, is a much better investment of points. Likewise with, say, Puissant Penetration.
For exemple, for your talisman, you have a "skull" attunement. Wouldn't a real, regular skull be much cooler as a Talisman?

For what it's worth, this is legit, but it makes me uneasy, because I don't see a Tremere doing that. This seems to go against the house ethos, and scraps an important part of what it is to be a Tremere magus: Their strength doesn't come so much from themselves (like, say, the flambeau) than from cooperation and working together.

Also: You seem to want to begin play with veeeery powerful necromancy rituals. For a relatively young magus, it feels strange. More importantly, IMO, there's little chance you'll get to use them in play, especially given their dependance on huge battlefields. I'd just scrap the 2 "big" rituals (over lvl 50) and... look at the Living Corpse section of Hermetic Projects instead.

Nice. I like these.
BTW, for your custom spells, could you list the base level please? Thanks!

You have no enchantment in your talisman, yet you gave it an attunement bonus. As far as I can tell, you cant.
There are 3 steps to this:

  • Enchant an item
  • Attune it as a talisman
  • Put enchantments in it. Each time you do this, you may give it an attunement bonus, based on its shape and material. But only then: Especially, you don't get an attunement bonus when attuning your talisman. For example, look at Darius: IIRC, he has one enchantment, one attunement.

You're saying that it only took you 2 seasons to create 2 enchanted items, one with a lvl 70, the other with lvl 50? Errr... I doubt it. We're talking lab totals 140 and 100 here.... :-/

I have a question: What are your character goals? You've gone overboard to give him very high casting and lab totals, as well as the ability to cast some of the greatest, most impressive rituals known to the order. What does he do next?

Just no.
First, you count this twice: As a greater feature, and as an enchanted item bonus. No double dipping.
Second, an enchanted item only provides a bonus if it doesn't look like an existing virtue or flaw. In this case, like you wrote, Greater Feature.
Last, even then, it "only" gives a +1 to a specialization per 10 levels, meaning a +7, not a +12. And still, like Greater Feature, it probably shouldn't be all aspected toward a single goal.

Mind you, there may be more errors, as I'm not keen on Andorra's lab rules, nor did I poke at everything.

35

I'm not 100% on this one. The Talisman rules say you get one bonus when you prepare your Talisman for enchantment, and when you instill it with an effect. Which is strange, yes, because there's no need to prepare a Talisman for enchantment (it already is before it became a Talisman, no?). So there's something going on with the rules here. What, I can't say for sure, but I assumed the text to mean the Talisman started with an attunement bonus when you got it, and then gained an additional one for each further effect. But...yeah. Something's not quite right in the text.

36

Given that his focus is on the spiritual side of things, it's less the walking dead and more the errr floating dead? The invisible floating dead at least, so less scaring the neighbors. They absolutely would be fantastic for helping out with the Covenant's Defenses.

Inscription on the Soul is something I've considered ditching, I'm not sure it provides enough (if really anything) that a regular Talisman doesn't. Maybe if he decides to go the Living Ghost route one day... But who knows?

Edit: Giving it quite a lot of thought, it's not doing enough to make me want to keep it.

I don't see how focusing on his role inside of the house and ditching the Certamen focus makes him any less of a team player. Maybe if he couldn't participate in rituals or something, but not being able to spont and not being great at Certamen don't really seem to fit that bill.

Don't have Hermetic Projects, but I'll consider snagging it and giving it a look. As for why I know the rituals, I know they're not actually going to see use... but it's more of a, that would be fun kind of thing.

Edit: Thought about what you said and you're right, they're largely impractical. Had an idea to make another item for him anyhow to round out his collection. I think I'll use the two seasons that I've now saved to make it.

Can't take credit, found em on an Ars blog and figured they'd work well as incentive for ghosts to work with me. And yeah, I'll update accordingly.

Unless I'm mistaken, the season you first attune the Talisman is when you get to pick a form or material bonus, but I can double check.

I was going based off of Marko's statement in the House Rule Section and assumed I had lab texts.

Looking at that, I need to make them lesser items, not a greater, but that's no real loss. Basically I assumed I had a lab text, which, I should, since they're cannon spells. Am I wrong in reading it that way?

Learn Corporeal Necromancy and spend the next 15-20 years or so getting really good at it.

That's fine, a Magic Item is a free virtue, so it's no skin off my nose to change. I was just trying to explain its role in the lab. Also, there are two devices (I incorrectly labeled it as a Greater Item), +7 and +5. I have no issues Aspecting the +7 from summoning towards Mentem and the +5 from the ward towards Rego.

I get that Magic Items in the lab can be considered very... munchkin-ish, for lack of a better word. So if it's an issue, I can tone them down. Though for the record, I'd still have them, even if they didn't give Lab Bonuses.

37

As I understand, you can prepare a talisman for enchantment multiple times. Isn't that what you'd call adding extra vis to the talisman?

I see things going like this:

  1. Prepare device for enchantment, adding 5 vis (it's not yet a talisman, so it gets no attunement)
  2. Attune device as talisman (no attunement for attuning, oddly enough)
  3. Instill effect costing 5 vis. Now your talisman is 'full.' (it gets an attunement)
  4. Prepare device for enchantment again, this time adding 10 vis (it gets another attunement)
  5. Instill another effect costing 4 vis (it gets another attunement)

You'd be left then with a talisman that had three attunements (two from instilling, one from preparing for enchantment after it became a talisman). The talisman would be filled with 9 out of its 15 points of enchantment. When those got used up (or before), you could always prepare it for enchantment again, adding more vis, up to the limit for talismans.

That's my understanding, at least.

38

Mm~ I guess so. Does seem odd that you don't get anything for attunting your Talisman, but I'm pretty sure you're right.

39

Some questions on his lab:

  1. Where did the Flawless Equipment come from? Did he buy it? Did he make it? Being a "free" virtue doesn't actually make it free. It just means it doesn't take up "size".

  2. Where did the Magic Item - Necromatic Summoning Circle come from? Did he enchant it? Did he contract another magi to enchant it?

  3. Where did the Lesser Guardian and Servant come from? I'm assuming he took them into his service somehow. That would probably make an interesting backstory.
    Flawless Equipment: +2 Quality, +2 Upkeep, +2 Vis Extraction (Free)

40

  1. I see them as being a reward for the three seasons he spent doing work for House Tremere (the three 'lost' seasons as it were).

  2. He enchanted them himself.

  3. Ghosts that he's bound into his service and yes, when I have to go through and write up each ghosts' backstory, it should be interesting.