IIRC, marble is SOFT stone. One of the nice properties of marble is that it is easily carved, and polished. Granite is hard...very hard.
Elder Runes: Magic Theory times Philosophiae. Sooooo if your MT was 12, and your Philoshophiae was 6, your total would be 72....
You would be able to invest 72 pawns of Vim...(But you would be stuck with the additional 10 levels for each spell...assuming you put two runes on...)
Unless you have 30+ for both scores, you won't touch the example in #3.
Any place a Verditius decides is his lab....
I would say you can do it...the COOL factor alone makes it worth the while...
Questions:
Materials: whatever you put in it...Iron to hurt Faeries, brass for Ignem, spells, wood for ...well you get the point..
Shape: you have doors-transportation
Windows: Scrying
stairs...hmmm
a form of shelter...bonus to protection spells..maybe a +5
Warping: Absolutely NOT
Remember: if you include other materials, you have additional requisites for the original spell....
Oooooo. I like this! My comments are interspersed and below:
I would recommend also looking at the extended Material and Size Table on p97 of The Mysteries in teh Hermetic Architecture section. It seems, first of all to be more related to usable floorspace than volume, but your guess seems to track pretty well.
Not that anyone knew this at the time of M.E., but marble is metamorphosed limestone. Poor some white vinagar on a polished, but not sealed, marble tile sometime and let it sit for a while. Just don't do it on your wife's/girlfriend's pastry stone ... talk about Perdo Corpus at voice range! Oh, and Rego Corpus ward -- new Range = precisely equal to the distance from your bed to your couch. Sheesh!
Another option, if you are looking for stronger material that is less prone to laboratory stains would be to get a block of granite and do a Muto Terram ritual on it to turn it purest white. Plus, the quartz in granite would make it all sparkly...
Yep, ask your SG to lend you the Mystery Cults book and look up Elder Runes. There is a penalty adding 5 or 10 to any effect level but lets you enchant MT multiplied by Phil pawns on an item (p128, top of the third column). Pretty impressive!
Again, look up Elder Runes. With the right choice of runes, you get to double the highest Form AND Technique and if you choose a Rune related to a major or minor magical focus ... whew!
There are ways around this. The first is the scaffolding/temporary lab idea. There are some penalties but a little planning and sacrifice of perhaps 3 or 4 seasons of effort, they can be eliminated or reduced. Your SG will need to read and understand and communicate to you those penalties and effects from the Lab Specialization rules in Covenants.
The second method for circumventing the "must be inside the lab" requirement is to look into Hermetic Architecture in The Mysteries.
Also, Erik's point about the statue is SERIOUSLY worth looking into.
Off the top of my head, I would guess that "stoneworking", "sculpting", or "decorating buildings" would be apropriate. Hmm. Persue the Vulgar Alchemy secrets and find out!
I would argue "no" for either you or your staff under "normal" circumsatnces. The taliman is a mystical extension of yourself so you and those you allow would be OK.
However, the idea of performing mystical experimentation, studying of vis, and other risky magical endeavors inside your mystical "self" bears thinking on. I'm sure your SG is suitably diabolical, but imagine what could happen if you botch a Perdo or Muto Corpus (or Mentem) effect. Warping will be only ONE of your problems!
Yes indeed. Consider adding a few sculptures in the studio or elsewhere of the shape bonuses that you want to invoke. Or put pristine examples of materials on display (and mystically connected to the tower).
With Vulgar Alchemy, Great Talisman, and Consummate Talisman mysteries under your belt, the grandness of this would be awe inspiring on the highest level. You would be INVITED to be an Archmagus!
Some more thoughts:
-- Carefully review the laboratory specialization rules in Covenants. With as much space as you are talking about, you can achive some pretty substantial lab bonuses. There are limits, but a Verditius would take what bonuses he could get.
-- In a similar vein, there are lab characteristic scores that have to be taken into account. Warping, in this context, is something I would review in detail. Also, Size, Refinement, and Health (remember that your lab is now attached to your person) have to be considered.
Invite your troupe to participate in some fashion. Persuit of this goal will generate a lot of stories and could easily dominate a saga. Just a thought.
Sir, I salute you. This is a truly grand idea. May you acheive your +9 "Great hermetic Architect" Reputation in short order!
It is my understanding that you do not need to inscribe the Elder Runes into the item you are working on. The knowledge that enables you to use the runes also allows you to use the increased vis total.
e.g. I am opening a small brass statue. It is a base metal (5) and it is larger than my hand so it is (4). It will take 20 pawns of vim to open it.
My stats are: MT 6, Phil 4
I cannot open it normally as my vis limit is (2 * 6), but as I know how the Elder Runes work I can use my Philosphae score. 6 * 4 allows me to open it in a season. I do not need to use the runes.
Yes, as Brutus says.. you don't need to actually use Elder Runes.. it just enhances your knowledge of such.. though I'd say you should probably be using verditius runes at least.
I find this sudden thread revival amusing, seeing as just last session my Verditius made his own tower using the same spell.. along with the staff that makes it fly ^^
This is such a great idea for Magi who are aiming to become living ghosts and need a really cool haunt.
"Ha! Insignificant Mortal Interloper ... You think you know my secrets ... and now are looking to find the talisman within my haunt! There is much you do not know!!!" Says the Verditious Living Ghost who sounds like that becuase of a very high hubris.
Also a great way of doing the classic flying castle in the clouds ... as you needn't limit your grand visions to one tower ... oh no ... best not to think small
On a practical note, it might also be a good idea to limit extra talisman components to a secure room deep within the tower (or castle) so that the talisman will not be broken should the strucutre take damage. The structure will still count as a mystical structure in this scenario, as opposed to having a nice big ruby on the front door that someone could knock off and poof you have a separated component and a disenchanted item (IIRC).
Considering that the taliman is mytically part of the magus' body, I'm thinking that if he installs an Hermetic Architecture effect creating an aura then he would arguably be under a high-powered constant effect and WOULD incur warping.
Might explain why previous magi haven't done something that fantastic.
On another point, if his tower stayed in an aura, couldn't he claim that is body is in a magical aura for spellcasting purposes?
(Ok, I'm pushing it a bit too far here )
Which (if allowed) would also imply that the magus could cast a spell on any target anywhere within that tower, or the ground it sits on, at a range of "Touch", making visiting that tower an interesting prospect for guests.
Yes, indeed. Provided that the person was touching the tower floor, wall, garderobe seat...
Presumably, furniture, carpets, rushes, and lab equipment would not actually be part of the talisman except for those included in the enchanment. Given that, a person standing on a carpet is not actually touching the talisman and so would not be subject to any touch range spell delivered through the talisman.
But a Muto Terram spell cast at Personal range (!) could just reach out and throttle the poor mook who stepped inside and (a) hold him fast and (b) deliver whatever touch range spells the magus wishes to deliver. Or (c) just flail him about like a rag doll.
Another interesting thing is that the entire lab is protected by Parma Magica. I would also rule that ANYONE inside a closed room of the tower would likewise be protected by the Parma from anyone outside the tower WITHOUT having to extend the Parma itself.
Now, let's add something really fun, Mentem magics. An interesting botch result would be that creatures from teh character's worst imaginings roam the halls...
Great idea, and pretty logical (if someone who touches the talisman touches the magi, the reverse should be true), but this would imply that he doesn't ward his tower against being touched, as discussed before.
Also pretty logical, and very powerful.
Great story idea! Especially for a criamon, if these are a kind of adulteration
This would make the tower a pretty creepy place. Then again, tower of Charm
Even if I let this flying tower work*, the talisman is ONLY the tower, the actual stone and timbers of the construction (and doors, windows, etc), but nothing else. I would never let Parma be a slick substitute for an Aegis of the Hearth. Afaik, a mage with an active Parma cannot "wrap" another person in their large cloak and claim the full Parma is now protecting them both (at least not by me. ymmv.)
(* Holding it together would be one problem, but I'm not saying I wouldn't, just would take some due consideration and forethought, and depend largely on the saga, troupe and player. )
(The question of exactly "how" a spell gets thru the Parma of the tower/talisman to the enclosed guest is another question, but also another reason I might not let such a huge item be a "talisman" in a saga I ran.)
I can easily see the argument that just as a mage's Parma protects anything he puts in his pocket, so the tower's Parma should protect the occupants and furnishings, etc, but, like I said, that's another reason to not allow this scam, not something that convinces me to allow this particular snowball to start rolling in the first place.
Parma creates a Magic Resistance, and the very first line under that topic states that "Magic Resistance keeps magic away from the mage, her clothing, and other items that are very close to her..." (p 85). This says nothing about "anything encompassed by her talisman"- that is a flawed mental model.
(For that matter, I'm not convinced that the phrase "...your Magic Resistance covers your talisman completely so long as you are touching it" (p98) was ever intended to refer to something so large as an entire building (but that's up to each SG/Troupe to decide on their own.) To me, the more I think about it, the more abusive it seems to become.
Seriously, though, ff the Parma extends to the Talisman, then I stand by my interpretation. If there is an open window and the attacker sees the allegedly protected individual, then all bets are off.
If Parma does not extend to the Talisman, then "normal" rules apply.
But, as you say, your miliage may vary.
As for a Criamon trying this, Fixer ... whew! A Criamon with Hermetic Architecture. --shudder-- Oh my.
But on the larger question of allowing it, I would absolutely allow it. It would define a saga, so if the troupe didn't agree, then I would work with the player in question to come up with another idea that fires his or her imagination. But I see nothing in the rules that would prevent it and I'm entirely OK with that.
Another question, raised by a good friend of mine, is "Why would a character want to do this?" There are easier, less expensive, and arguably less dangerous ways to make a good name for oneself in the Order and accomplish other magical works. Possible reasons are
-- To find the REAL limit of his ability.
-- To make such a grand magical device so as to write his name into history right next to the founders without slaying a dragon, hunting a pack of Marched Diabolist Mages (tm), inventing a spell that creates regiones (with associated breakthroughs), making a Hermetic Breakthrough, or successfully founding a new House.
-- Why not (other than being ludicrously expensive and grossly inefficient for most of the things you want to do with it)? I'm a magus and I should be allowed to do as I choose!!!!
Out of game reasons include
-- Giving storyguides fits (sometimes sufficient justification by itself)
-- Giving other players fits
-- Causing the Line Editor to rethink some rules
-- Challenging supplement authors to get even more creative
-- Turning ArM5 into a high fantasy game (gasp! horrors!)
No, no. I think this idea is grand and wonderful. If it suits the Troupe, SG, and player, then go for it and DON'T LOOK BACK!!
Sadly, I am conservative by nature, in that caution and slow change appeal to my nature over extremes. Guilty as charged.
In reading the examples on MR (p 85), I would say that elemental attacks would be more easily repelled, but things like Mentem or Intellego would be more generally successful.
I agree on all points. My main hesitation would be a sudden redefining of the Saga mid-way through. If the mage wanted to show up with it, OR had stated that this was a goal before the saga began (and we understood about when that goal would be realized), the saga could be adapted in that direction from word one.
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