I'm inclined to agree with amul here. I had another player who engineered a lab of complex design, and I handwaved some of the stuff, but ultimately that player dropped out of the saga, so it became moot...
So, if you want all this stuff, it could be at your old lab, and you have to contract for someone to transport this to your new home.
Keep in mind, unlike Rego Corpus transport spells, I am enforcing requisites on Ambulatory Laboratory, AND it is also an incorrect level in Covenants, and has been corrected to level 50 in the errata. Yeah, I know the transport of the lab and the person is inconsistent...but I don't want labs flying all across Mythic Europe. People...sure no problem.
Oh, and this is a bad idea. in the Normandy Tribunal. All vis sources become property of the covenant. Alexei's vis source (from the Milites) slides in, because it is deposited with an account at Harco, and the vis source never enters Normandy, per se.
Looks like we're of the same mind in terms of which virtues the BPs are buying. If it takes a season per non-free virtue (which it probably does - I can't think of any non-weak arguments for the other side), then that's a necessary evil I guess.
My notion (fueled by JL) is that Tranquillina's lab back at Nigrasaxa was not complex and cool like this, so probably [strike]Prodigal[/strike] Ambulatory Laboratory doesn't make sense on IC grounds. Indeed the fancy new lab is partially the result of a "spending spree", as Tranquillina finally finds herself at a Place with Resources.
Hmmm. IC there's no way Tranquillina would know about this ahead of time ... but if we're willing to nudgenudge winkwink, I can find another use for those BPs. (Are there Lab Texts, or a tractatus, that people would want?)
Those 5 BPs should definitely help the covenant somehow rather than (just) Tranquillina. If we-the-players want a vis source, I'm cool with that. But Tranquillina wouldn't want to carry around a vis source at all. Maybe it can be a fortuitous discovery, or part of a bargain or something....
Sitting in storage at Nigrasaxa, that makes sense. By "transport" could we just mean a mundane shipment? Are we looking for story potential here?
I didn't make any assumptions about the virtues you bought. I just organized them in sensible installment pairs. My point is that you shouldn't pay both seasons and build points for your lab. I suppose paying for the Specimens ahead of time makes sense. Why not make the other lab virutes as magic items? Then they're Free Virtues, and you can make them Feature/Focuses as you want.
There's no way for her to know this before she joins Bibracte. Viscaria's plans for the Tribunal Field are well known and oft-discussed (by her, if no one else).
The BPs are for you, the player, to make a mark on the game in a way that makes it feel like you have partial ownership of it. Add what YOU want to see here that isn't already.
Another specialist? Lab Texts? Myself, I'd rather see a pile of low-magnitude spells that could be picked up with remainder lab points, than one big text, but your mileage may vary.
Also, I was checking out the info on the wiki, and I notice that T's backstory pretty much ends at her Gauntlet, except for a quick 2-paragraph summary. What has she been up to since then?
Ok, I think I should globally rethink how to spend these build points. I wasn't looking at it from the standpoint of double-paying for lab virtues (in terms of both bps and seasons), and given the low-fantasy virtues that fit my idea of her lab, I don't see anything that could reasonably be pre-installed for her. Also, she's going to want to spend at least one season of refinement once she gets there; also, really she only wanted the Opulent virtue for the health benefit (yeah, she's a little obsessed like that). And also, maybe I won't be considered a twink if I optimize these choices based on OOC knowledge of the covenant's near-term improvements (Durenmar plunder, Viscaria's project).
So here's what I'm thinking at the moment.
11 bp: keep these lab texts - Twist of the Tongue (PeCo 30), and Strings of the Unwilling Marionette (ReCo 25)
26 bp: still a summa, but changed to Creo, Level 15, Quality 11 (since we're getting Mentem from Durenmar)
change the cabinets to sustain specimens enchantment design to one that actually creates corpses or pieces thereof, up to 24 times a day, Sun duration. It would be essentially the same level (20 instead of 19) and should still allow the Specimens lab virtue, but would be transportable and installable immediately like any good magic item. (This was made in a lab season in Tranquillina's character creation, so not 100% relevant to the current discussion.)
8 bp: still an enchanted item, but not magical heating any longer. I was trying to think of something level 20 that would improve health in the lab. A comfortable chair, even a massage chair? A mind CrCo effect to soothe aches and pains, or even a repeatable ReCo massage effect; alternatively, a MuHe effect to make the chair comfortable/ergonomic? Any good ideas anyone?
no bps spend on lab virtues. I'll use a couple of future seasons instead.
30 bp (well, actually 35 bp counting the rebate from Pierre Legris): vis source for the covenant.
I do think it would be more in-character to have a new vis source discovered in the regio (say) than for Tranquillina to bring it with her. amul, do you want to discover/improv-invent a vis source in our current thread? I'm thinking something Perdo and Terram, or maybe Perdo and Imaginem, that we stumble across while looking at quarry sites....
It seems pretty reasonable to me that you had and filled a magic Specimens cabinet while at Nigraxsa (sp?). Having them ship it over to you as originally designed, you'll get the Magic Item benefit (20 lvls = +2, divided between.....what? Creo and Corpus?), and then be able to install the specimens minor virtue at your leisure. Remember, installing the virtue takes a season so that the lab is arranged to provide the mystic bonuses. If you just throw it in the corner, you still get the Magic Item bonus.
Magically soft carpet? (He suggests after a day on hard floors.)
My version of a "Gleam of the Freshly Polished Glass" is momentary, dropping it down to 15 + uses, and I have it reducing Upkeep and increasing Health. You could add +3 environmental trigger +2 for 3 uses/day = PeTe 20, for an object that cleans and polishes all the surfaces in your lab at sunrise and sundown, plus an extra use in case you've got unexpected guests. Perhaps a bell that, when rung, destroys all the grime?
Now that we're discussing this specifically, I don't know that I think it is fair for a single magic effect to provide BOTH an income reduction AND a free magic item virtue in every laboratory.
I still think you should spend these BPs on yourself. But if you want to discover vis sources, especially during that thread...
Perdo: See RoP:M 120 for the Icicle of Perdo Vis Lesser Enchantment Vis.
Another idea: Theraphosa's children have begun spinning their webs in many underground places. Sometimes, they catch some kind of vermin, perhaps a rat, and once the rat has been sucked dry by the giant siren-spider, its dried husk contains a pawn of Perdo vis.
Terram: We stumble into a higher level of the regio, a small pocket-space, which contains a small home from Bibracte-that-was. A leaky ceiling drips onto a metal plate, causing rust. The rust is Terram vis. Placing any other iron object under the leak will generate Terram Vis rust.
Imaginem: The caves in which Viscaria's sanctum lies contains a peculiar strand of rock which glows in the presence of The Gift. Nearby is a small still pool with a fine silt in it. If someone with enough magic to make the stone glow looks into the pool, he sees an image of himself as if he were a goblin. This image can be collected from the pool using trivial Rego Imaginem(Vim) magic, but must be stored in some kind of prepared container.
Not exactly. Tranquillina's not around when Viscaria orders the gifts, but V used nothing but local craftsmen to make them, and they'd all remember the order. Be easy enough to ask for another set, I assume.
Your plan is a good one if I want to use a season as well as the magic item. Not wanting to use the season is the impetus for my alternate proposal (which wouldn't give Creo or Corpus specialty bonuses, just the Specimens virtue but without the upkeep.)
To my understanding, a given magic effect can be used mechanically one of two ways in the lab: (a) induce an existing Virtue for the lab, but (typically) without the upkeep cost; or (b) grant ad hoc bonuses to the lab according to the 10-to-+1 or 20-to-+1 guidelines on page 121 of Covenants. If you're talking about Viscaria's project, that seems to be in class (a).
I liked both the fresh air and soft carpet ideas; I'll muse upon them. (The bath too, although I'm looking for something specifically for her lab.) Actually I really like the broom idea too, but just thought it would be more fun to have something different. Good point, Fixer, about the warping.
Well, Tranquillina's good with Perdo, so maybe this will be partially for herself. But what else could she really want, anyway?
These are fun ideas - let me know if you want to settle on something ahead of time.
No biggie, probably not the kind of thing Tranquillina would think of.
Random: the first time she refines her Mons Electi lab (currently scheduled for 1223.4), she'll roll to gain the Highly Organized free virtue as per Covenants page 110. Her Int 3 + Magic Theory 8 + stress die 9 meets an Ease Factor of 12. Just wanted to record that roll.
Ok, I think I've settled on the details of the above plan. I'll keep the specimens cabinet the way they are - call their intrinsic-magic-item benefit Creo +1, Corpus +1 as amul suggested - and only later incorporate them into the lab layout as an official Specimens Virtue. Similarly, I'll put the corpsicle-stand in the lab to get its Corpus +1 from the beginning, but only later arrange the lab around it as a Lesser Feature. Finally, I drew up two very minor enchantments (Amphora of Spring Breezes and Succor of the Toiler's Arches) that together give a +1 benefit to Health (these are bought with 8 bps, as opposed to the other two which were made in a character build lab season).
The final starting build for the lab is now on its wiki page, along with some future plans for it (which have also been entered on the magi planner document). Modulo comments of course....
Speaking of planning future seasons: would any of the Tribunal preparations (spells/items) be a good fit for Tranquillina? She's Corpus first, Perdo and Imaginem second, and good in the lab. (She's also not bad at Intrigue, for other types of activities.)
First off, why not use 1226 to install Lesser Feature/Focus, and then use 1227 to remove the Focus with a season of Refinement?
Also, in terms of min-maxing for greatest benefit as quickly as possible, this order is not optimized. ~shrug~
Isen has offered to convert rooms to Food Preservation spaces throughout the Field.
We never did figure out what we're going to be doing with all the trash and excrement that gets built up. That would be valuable. I'd been trying to figure out how to do it with Rego instead of Perdo because that's my area of expertise and I was hoping we might be able to use it to sneak an Arcane Connection out of Valerian.
You could make some kind of Rego Corpus spell/device Ward Against Curious Scullions to keep those pesky grogs inside the walls of the Tribunal?
For Covenant Defense purposes, we were talking about using Imaginem to hide rooms and murder holes. Perhaps make up some spells for that sort of thing?
Yah - was thinking of what she'd prefer in-character (step 1: get rid of vis-making equipment )
A straight Perdo Corpus excrement-nixing spell would be well within her capabilities ... but I think lots of visiting magi would be suspicious of such a thing, precisely because it might be a Rego-based Arcane-Connection gatherer.
She can spont Ward Against Curious Scullions pretty easily as is. Again, wouldn't the pinging on magi's Parma at every entrance make them suspicious?
This could be fun. Something like: MuIm base 2 (change how sight and touch perceive an object), +1 Touch, +3 Moon, +1 Part, +1 Size (an illusion about 12'x10') = a level 20 spell, perhaps?
OK, a level 30 ReCo spell is kind of a perfect lab project for Tranquillina. But before she commits to it, we should figure out whether it's really what we want. Will the presence of Circles at entrances to the Tribunal buildings be seen as threatening to visiting magi? Are we still susceptible enough to teleported grogs to make the wards worthwhile?
To me this seems more like a ReIm spell (move the echoic species striking the transmitter to the receiver) than a CrIm spell. The level would be rather high (the base is 15).
The CrIm version would seem to need extra magnitude(s) for a constantly changing image, and/or a second effect for the device to "know" what it's hearing.
Perhaps invisible (grog) sentries outside each of the four gates, to report any funny business?
Perhaps post notices at each of the gates, explicitly "requesting" that all Tribunal participants other than Mons Electi residents remain within the walled city at all times? This could help explain the circles carved into the ground (which, by the way, could that be done with a stonecutter's ring?).
What did you (or anyone) think of the mechanics of the MuIm spell?
To me the difference between Phantasm of the Talking Head and the proposed transmitter-receiver enchantment is this. If I cast a spell that made sound come out of a distant thing to which I had an Arcane Connection, great. I could even decide in my mind what sounds I wanted to create - maybe a +1 magnitude for complexity, but that's about it. However, if I wanted those sounds to be a faithful (HD quality) recreation of the sounds I was hearing around me, that seems to be a different ball game altogether. With a human actor, maybe there's a chance (with a high Finesse roll), although I have my doubts even then. But if we change the situation, so that there's an enchantment creating the sound instead of a person ... to me CrIm seems outclassed for the desired effect.
Scrying. If any of the magi find out, then we could get censured.
"Ave, Sodales. We regret to inform you that our badgersharks are not completely housebroken yet. We request that you remain within the Tribunal Villa at all times. If you choose to disregard our request, please be sure that you have given our staff the name and covenant of your next of kin. Thank you."
If we want to use Imaginem to hide, say, a murder hole, but still have it usable, I'm not sure it can be done in one spell. I'm thinking CrIm to create the illusion of (presumably) a stone over the hole – Base 1, R: Touch (+1), D: Moon (+3), T: Individual, for a final spell level of 5. Follow that up with a ReIm to move the species that hit the illusionary stone to the other side of the stone where the archer sits; Base 2, R: Touch (+1), D: Moon (+3), T: Individual, for a final spell level of 10.
Ah, I didn't really understand what a murder hole was for; I see what you mean.... Alternatively, we could use a transparency (like Ambush on the Deserted Road from HoH:S page 64, although I think we could get away with level 15 if the archer was sitting behind a static hole); such a spell would certainly be within Tranquillina's capacity to invent. But wouldn't either approach also be considered magical scrying?
Possibly, but I think it's more of a stretch. There are (I believe) canon peripheral code rulings about using invisible grogs to watch magi. Having someone sit behind a wall that's magicked to be, basically, a one-way mirror might be more acceptable.