Trebuchet Magic

[Jonathan.Link]

The effect is to do +30 damage. Whether it appears to be thrown or falls from a distance is irrelevant. It is still a CrTe effect. It gets resisted period because it is magically created. One could make a ReTe effect to throw large boulders, but then one requires large boulders to throw.

[Tellus]

@YR7

I actually think it isn't a cosmetic effect.

BoAF creates a fire on top of the target, and cosmetically makes it look like you throw the fire. If you wish to create a rock on top of the target and cosmetically make it appear that you're throwing the stone, fine - but I'd say that creating a stone on top of the target doesn't actually do that much damage, not as much damage as throwing it at them at high velocity.

So I'm inclined to read the effect as a standard ReTe effect, with Creo used to create the rock in this case.

I realize that things like Mighty Torrent of Water won't fit into this model. But still, I personally see this spell as a ReTe one and don't agree it can be a straight Creo spell.

I'm with YR7 on this. If you want to avoid taht Re-req, make the rock above your target. moving it in a seperate deirection gives the spell (potential for) additional utility: Not cosmetic.

[Arthur]

@Tellus

I'm with YR7 on this. If you want to avoid taht Re-req, make the rock above your target. moving it in a seperate deirection gives the spell (potential for) additional utility: Not cosmetic.

+1

[Jonathan.Link]

Perhaps I don't see how it adds additional utility.

[LuckyMage]

@Jonathan.Link

Perhaps I don't see how it adds additional utility.

Um... It can hit targets with a ceiling above them but no walls around them? Or... Well, in terms of applicable targets, a castle wall is a lot taller than it is thick and changing its center of gravity could cause it to topple, so a rock thrown at its side will do more meaningful damage than one dropped on it, but it's kind of hard to give that a rules destinction.

[Jonathan.Link]

@LuckyMage

@Jonathan.Link

Perhaps I don't see how it adds additional utility.

Um... It can hit targets with a ceiling above them but no walls around them? Or... Well, in terms of applicable targets, a castle wall is a lot taller than it is thick and changing its center of gravity could cause it to topple, so a rock thrown at its side will do more meaningful damage than one dropped on it, but it's kind of hard to give that a rules destinction.

The rules for taking out the castle in LoM are an attack beating a defense roll, in this case the Attack roll is a Finesse roll (I'd argue Perception) to place the rock in the correct spot. Whether it is thrown or dropped from above the siege rules from LoM don't take how it hits the target into account; the result is the same if the attack is successful. Walls have an overall damage quantity and teach successful attack (Finesse roll exceeds the defensive roll) means that the wall loses a damage level. Once the damage level of the wall drops to 0, it's gone. Whether that happens because it is dropped from above or lobbed doesn't have any mechanical impact within Ars Magica.

I can understand the idea of wanting to have a Rego requisite, because it appears to lob the stone, however the same thing can be accomplished by simply creating the stone at a height above the wall and letting it fall onto the castle wall rather than be thrown into it. So what changes? Is the finesse roll harder or easier? Does it change the underlying mechanics of how the wall gets destroyed (+30 damage is ignored with respect to walls in LoM, although people will definitely be affected).

So no, I don't see that this spell has any specific additional utility when it allows the magus to throw the stone as if it came from a trebuchet or just drop the stones from a height sufficient to do +30 damage or damage the wall.