Two relics from the schism war.

Games Discussion Ars Magica
1

Two enchanted devices for use in wizard’s wars. Perhaps they’ll stir up some controversy here.

In the early days of what eventually became the schism war two Flambeau magi created items to help one another in a wizard’s war that they each intended to simultaneously declare on a Diedne magus who they knew possessed some considerable skill in Parma magica. The two magi Helios, an ignem master with considerable skill in both penetration and mentem, and MacTir, a Magus of Aprimor’s school, hoped to be able to create enchanted rings that let the other use a bit of their own strength. The Flambeau were successful in their wizard’s war. The two used their lab texts to create a duplicate set of the rings and these four items were used by many Flambeau during the schism war and in the years since to great effect.

MacTir’s ring of Parma splitting

An unadorned golden ring enchanted with two effects

Moment of Striking
Intellego Mentem 30
This effect is similar to the description of linked trigger on page 99 of the rule book. The ring senses when the wearer is intending to cast an offensive spell at a target.

Splitting the Hermetic Sheild
Perdo Vim 30
R Sight D Mom T Ind.
The target’s Parma magica is dispelled if this effect penetrates and the target’s parma magica skill times five is less than 35 + a stress die (no botch).

Base level 15 + 3 magnitudes for sight range
Modifications +21 for +42 penetration, +3 for linked trigger, +2 for 3 activations per day
Total level of the effect is +56

The user of this ring is often obliged to delay the casting of their offensive spell slightly to ensure that splitting the hermetic shield goes off before their attack spell. (There are no rules for the initiative of enchanted devices. As a SG I’d have the device go off on the character’s rolled initiative and force the character to wait 2 ticks or so.)

Helios’s ring of the mind splinter

A simple steel ring enchanted with a single muto mentem effect.

Splitner of the Aggressive Mind
Muto Mentem 35
R Touch D Sun T Partl
The Target of this spell has the part of their mind that understands how spells penetrate changed into part of a mind very much like Helios’. During the duration of the spell, the target is treated as if they had a penetration score of seven with a specialization in ignem. The effects of the spell masteries that Helios had are also reflected in the mind of the target. If the target chooses to cast panic of the trembling heart they receive an additional level of penetration skill, if they choose to cast Pillum of fire, they receive four additional levels of penetration skill. In addition to these beneficial effects the target also receives a small fraction of the personality of the long dead magus. The target will have the personality traits of hurried +2 and hatred of secrets+4 for the duration of the spell. The target gains a point of warping each time the effect is used due to the powerful magical effect. Most magi feel somewhat disturbed by their experience after the effect fades but do not recall being bothered during the duration of the effect itself.
Base 15 +2 magnitudes duration sun, +1 magnitude range touch, +1 magnitude target part 1 use per day

2

Since Parma is not a Vim effect, I do not believe it can be dispelled by your guideline. I would use the same as described in the book under Wind of Mundane Silence.

It would look like:

Splitting the Hermetic Sheild
Perdo Vim 35
R Sight D Mom T Ind.
The target’s Parma magica is dispelled if this effect penetrates and the target’s parma magica skill times Ten is less than 40 + a stress die (No botch).

Base level General(20) + 3 magnitudes for sight range
Modifications +21 for +42 penetration, +3 for linked trigger, +2 for 3 activations per day
Total level of the effect is 61

On average, it will be effective against a Parma of 5 & lower. Not the intented effect it seems but still interesting to give to younger mages that wanted to take part in the Schism War.

Personally I find that the creators of these rings would the be trialed for betrayal against the Order & if not Marched, the items would be destroyed & stripped out of the records.

3

I agree with William that these rings are essentially illegal. But Hermetic Law is often based on if you don't get caught-it's not illegal. I can see Magi easily saying because your using them on traitors that are no longer Hermetic Magi (The Diende), the attacks aren't illegal.

I can see them being stripped from the records books, but continueing to exist. One couldn't use them on Hermetic Magi, but that what adventures are about!

4

I used the guideline for a specific type of magic such as (IIRC) "hermetic terram magic or shamanti cspirit magic" I believe that if the guideline can encompass all of the different effects of terram magic it can certainly encompas the single effect of parma.

Why isn't parma a "valid vim effect"? Certainly there are no muto vim spells in the book designed to target it but neither are there muto vim spells for Shamantic spirit magic.

"Personally I find that the creators of these rings would the be trialed for betrayal against the Order & if not Marched, the items would be destroyed & stripped out of the records."

Does a magus not have the right to defend himself in a wizard's war? How is a hopilite going to do their job if they can not penetrate their quarry's parma? The muto mentem ring is usable against any target with resistance whether it be might based or not.

5

Wizard's War also fall outside the traditional laws set up in the Code of Hermes. Essentially, you can attack and kill a magus under Wizard's War. So they would likely be illegal if used against a magus for no particular reason, but under the state of Wizard's War, they would be perfectly acceptable.

While this may seem obvious, it makes me realize that Magi can if they like, make all sorts of illegal kill'em dead items/spells and use them so long as it's under the condition "Wizard's War."

Hmmm, where are my notes for that Vis Bomb?

6

Even Bonisagus was not able to fit parma as a simple ReVi Spell. Parma holds a special status as a breakthru that hermetic magic cannot completly understand.

I like to view parma as a Re(All forms) effect. That would be the reason why it would be affected by Wind Of Mundane Silence & that the guideline that you used would be innefective.

If he guideline for a specific type of magic would apply to parma, Bonisagus great Breakthru of parma would have been reduced to a trivial breakthru since a seasoned magus could loose his MR to an apprentice that learned the spell & used a few pawns of Vis. There would not have been the thrust of security that was essential in the development of the Order.

Still, If you which to apply it in your Saga, go ahead. I just feel it would be hard to hold an order together when you know that half of the mages you encounter can bring down your parma & that there could be dozen of deveices that can also do it from the hands of a grog...

7

I see, that's clever

I don't think that it's all that easy even using the specific guideline. Notice that the item I made was a level 56 effect, not exactly the sort of thing that anyone could whip up.

A moderately protected magus who has a parma score of 3 and 5 points in vim needs to be hit with a casting total of 30 (ten for the spell and twenty for penetration). To get that reliably you could count on 3 from the die roll and on average (depending upon the attacker) around seven from stamina, a talisman, virtues, spell mastery and auras. this leaves somwhere in the neighborhood of 20 to be taken care of with perdo and vim. It's not too difficult but it isn't the sort of thing that a dabbler or an apprentice could liekly manage.

A magus with a parma skill of four and ten ranks in vim requires the attacker to get a casting total of forty five. In other words, non-specialists need not apply.

8

Think about this then. Reduce level to 46 since you only need touch. Put it into a sword talisman & you have a mage slayer weapon. A specialist starting mage can achive it...

Int(2)+MT(5)+Pe(15)+Vi(10)+Talisman(5)+Aura(3)+Talisman Shape & Material Bonus(3)+ Minor Focus(Dispelling)(10) = 53

This stating magus can then in one season, enchant his talisman in one season (With Effect Expiryx10 (1 Year)) & start killing mages. Pretty much any Magus with a few years past can do it also which augments the possibility that a labtext could be found by a starting magus to enchant permanently into a lesser item! Then I see the order fall into Kaos...

9

All sorts of level 25 penetration 42 effects can spell doom to a magus.

Creo ignem can give you a range touch +25 damage per round duration diameter cloak of fire.

Perdo corpus can make your target blind and mute

creo herbam, creo terram, creo aquam , creo auram could all snuff a magus at level 25

Rego mentem could make them lower or surpress their parma without any screwing about with perdo vim.

I don't see how a parma ripper spell will make the order any more doomed than any of these. Magi have always been able to kill each other.

10

True...

But An attack by CrIg Will not leave you more vulranable to the next attack in PeCo.

Once Your parma is down, any mage can use any of their spells to finish you off.

But still, you point is taken. Level 20 with 42 penetration. Can be dangerous. But remember that using your PeVi guideline, this level 20 spell can blow a parma of 7-8 which is pretty much an Elder mage. One would probably need to boost the penetration a bit but as a formulaic spell level 20 + 20 vis, the Elder magus would loose his Parma...

I personally would have a hard time believing in Parma if ssuch an effect could be so easilly acheived.

11

I think that this makes sense rules-wise, but not flavor wise. I don't think it's unbalancing, as noted such a level of power should be debilitating in any case. But Parma Magica is very unique in the rules, and I don't want to see it removed that easily.
If the issue comes up IMS, I would simply rule this effect a Ritual. That would eliminate the mage-killing sword and effectively remove the effect from combat, while leaving room for it to be used under special circumstances.

Yair

12

So using a range touch spell on an elder magus while holding a full two rooks of vis is easily achieved? Wouldn't it be much easier to just use a sharp dagger coated with an incapacitating poision and avoid the parma all together?

At range touch, a level 20 rego mentem woulg give you full control of the target for duration diameter. You could make them drop their parma and Still have a minute and fifty some seconds to make them do other things.

At range touch, a level 20 creo ignem spell will do +20 damage, that's incapacitation or death for a character who has no exceptional protection. In my opinion loosing ones parma still leacves one free to act and so is less dangerous than incapacitation.

At range touch a level 20 rego corpus spell you can have strings of the unwilling mationette and arguable have the taret slit their own throat. Is this somehow worse than loosing one's parma.

In all three cases the the target is not only in worse condition thna being merely stripped of their parma but they are also more vunerable to the next attack.

So I disagree with your implied position that being able to apply the "dispel specific magic guideline" to parma makes magi significantly more vunerable.

An elder magus with a parma of seven or eight and a vim score of seven to fifteen would require a penetration of 42 to 55 asssuming three stamina, four penetration, a die roll of four, an aura of 0, no applicable talisman attunement and twenty pawns of art specific vis, the caster would still need to have a technique + form score of 31 to 44.

That could be a a very focused starting mage if the mage was specifically designed to do the job and had an applicable magical focus. but realisticly you're looking at at least ten years out of apprenticship even for a Apromorian Flambeau and not even an elder magus could pull it off if they didn't put above average effort into perdo or vim.