Two Spells.

[Tugdual]

@callen

@Tugdual

@callen

3. CrCo45 gives you +1 to a Characteristic, but only a single Characteristic.

It could be argued that since Puissant Ability and Great Characteristic are both minor Virtues, a CrCo45 might exists for a +3 to Ability. But it would be under a similar restriction, namely getting the +3 only if your score is 0.

Are there spells equivalent to blessings or minor Virtues? That might help also.

Puissant Ability is +2.

Even then, Finesse trumps +2 very quickly.

Chris

Yes, I was thinking of a few other minors that give a +3. All I'm saying is that a CrCo45 might give a +3 to a limited set of actions.

[callen]

@Tugdual

Yes, I was thinking of a few other minors that give a +3. All I'm saying is that a CrCo45 might give a +3 to a limited set of actions.

Sounds reasonable. It's actually a lot more reasonable than the tiny regular CrCo bonuses. Myself, I don't like how the CrCo spells are such a high-level spell as a temporary boosts while being noticeably easier as permanent character enhancements. I think I would have preferred a second duration for such Creo spells instead of using Momentary. But I like the game as-is, so I'm not worried about it.

Chris

[DIREWOLF75]

@callen

@Tugdual

Yes, I was thinking of a few other minors that give a +3. All I'm saying is that a CrCo45 might give a +3 to a limited set of actions.

Sounds reasonable. It's actually a lot more reasonable than the tiny regular CrCo bonuses. Myself, I don't like how the CrCo spells are such a high-level spell as a temporary boosts while being noticeably easier as permanent character enhancements. I think I would have preferred a second duration for such Creo spells instead of using Momentary. But I like the game as-is, so I'm not worried about it.

Chris

Use my fix, Ritual permanent spells gets +2 magnitudes.
( non ritual permanent gets +20... :mrgreen: )

[ladyphoenix]

Okay, looking at these two spells, I see multiple flaws

1. Magic does not go on and off, stronger or weaker. This means it can't be surpressed to allow bypassing parma.
2. It is finesse or Weapon/Athletics skill, you do not get to add it. You aren't augmenting your fighting skill, you are overriding it. You are using your mind to determine how the blade moves or the body moves. This goes against the natural motion of your training. Either the mind is controlling (finesse) or the body/skill is controlling (single weapon, brawl, athletics), not both.

Craft skills are only relevant if you are creating something (though perhaps you could argue that your single weapon score might give some bonus to your finesse).

3. Third, spells are not intelligent which means they can't change and adapt and adjust easily. A spell to use finesse in place of brawl in unarmed fighting should not also apply to athletics for rego.

4. This is for rego obviously, Muto can perhaps give you slightly better reflexes, let your body move faster, add spring of frog to your jump, toughen your skill and creo can make you more like the ideal person (crMe to boost mental traits, CrCo for physical) but those are not adding skills to the body.

5. I could see a Creo (muto, hmmm tricky) Mentem to give a person a skill or lore for a time in which case you can give someone your skill with the weapon to a limit. I would say that you can only give your skill -1 or skill -2 to a person for physical skills. Part of Brawl and single weapons and such is training muscle memory into muscles to react in combat (maybe full skill with a Corpus requisite to add the muscle memory)

As for why non-permanent spells are higher level than the permanent ones for the CrCo/CrMe. The difference is the power and impact of the vis and fact that it is harder to cast (something that can be cast for effect in one action with simple die right before entering battle is different from something that takes an hour and a half to two hours undistrurbed with 9-10 pawns of vis.)