Unknown Cargo: Character Design

Another silly side note... locks at this timeframe were pretty simple. One was a wooden bar on the inside with a small hole above it. A peasant's hand scythe fit through the hole and allowed the bar to be shifted, unlocking the door.

The romans had some padlock type locks for chests... there certainly were key-locks in 13C europe, but they are uncommon....found more often in places like churches.

You might be better served with legerdemain(slight of hand). Just a thought.

-Ben.

Revised XP Breakdown:

Early Childhood ( 45 / 45 xp )
Greek ( Vocabulary ): 5 ( oxp )
Latin ( Hermetic ): 2 ( 15xp )

Athletics ( Endurance ): 1 ( 5xp )
Brawl ( Dodging ): 1 ( 5xp )
Stealth ( Urban ): 1 ( 5xp )

Charm ( Wit ): 1 ( 5xp )
Guile ( Fast Talk ): 1 ( 5xp )

Awareness ( Searching ): 1 ( 5xp )

Apprenticeship ( 300/300xp - 150/150spells + 50/50xp )

Raise: Latin ( Hermetic ): 4 ( 35xp )

Magic Theory ( Vim ): 3 ( 30xp )

Artes Liberales ( Ritual/Ceremonial Magic ): 1 ( 5xp )

Philosophiae ( Ritual/Ceremonial Magic ): 1 ( 5xp )

Parma Magica ( Mentem ): 1 ( 5xp )

Penetration ( Vim ): 1 ( 5xp )

Finesse ( Precision ): 1 ( 5xp )

Concentration ( Spell Concentration ): 1 ( 5xp )

Code of Hermes ( Rights ): 1 ( 5xp )

Order of Hermes Lore ( Conflicts ): 1 ( 5xp )

Magic Lore ( Magical Traditions ): 1 ( 5xp )

Etiquette ( Nobility ): 1 ( 5xp )

Muto: 8 ( 36xp )

Rego: 8 ( 36xp )

Vim: 11 ( 44xp )

Mentem: 11 ( 44xp )

ReVi25: Aegis of the Hearth - Mastered: 1 ( Stalwart Casting ) ( 5xp )

MuVi25: Wizard's Communion - Mastered: 1 ( Adaptive Casting ) ( 5xp )

ReVi25: Opening the Intangible Tunnel - Mastered: 3 ( Magic Resistance, Ceremonial Casting, Penetration ) ( 30xp )

ReMe10: The Call To Slumber - Mastered: 1 ( Subtle Casting ) ( 5xp )

PeVi10: Demon's Eternal Oblivion - Mastered: 1 ( Penetration ) ( 5xp )
PeVi10: Words Wrought of Iron - Mastered: 1 ( Penetration ) ( 5xp )
PeVi10: Cthonic Invocation - Mastered: 1 ( Penetration ) ( 5xp )
PeVi10: Fellblade of the Art - Mastered: 1 ( Penetration ) ( 5xp )

ReMe20: Scent of Peaceful Slumber

InMe15: Perception of the Conflicting Motives - Mastered: 1 ( Magic Resistance ) ( 5xp )

PeMe15: Calm the Motion of the Heart - Mastered: 1 ( Magic Resistance ) ( 5xp )

--- Concludes Apprenticeship, Mastered Spells, and Skilled Parens point usage.

Ash Guild Trained ( 30/30xp - 60/60points )

Intrigue ( Hermetic ): 3 ( 30xp )

Raise Parma Magica ( Mentem ): 2 ( +4xp ) ( 14xp )

Single Weapon ( Gladius/Short Sword ): 1 ( 5xp )

Thrown Weapon ( Knife ): 1 ( 5xp )

Perdo: 8 ( 36pts )

Post Gauntlet 5 Years ( 150/150points )

Raise: Parma Magica ( Mentem ): 3 ( 16xp )

Raise: Artes Liberales ( Ritual/Ceremonial Magic ): 3 ( 25xp )

Raise: Philosophiae ( Ritual/Ceremonial Magic ): 3 ( 25xp )

Raise: Concentration ( Spell Concentration ): 2 ( 10xp )

Raise: Penetration ( Vim ): 3 ( 25xp )

ReVi25: Maintain the Demanding Spell

Legerdemain ( Sleight of Hand ): 1 ( 5xp )

Bargain ( Favor-Trading ): 1 ( 5xp )

Leadership ( Planning ): 1 ( 5xp )

Profession ( Scribe ) ( Copying ): 1 ( 5xp )

Corpus: 2 ( +1xp ) ( 4xp )

Revised Character Sheet:

Scipio Dolosus filus Forlitace filus Fulgens filus Tremere

Saga: Uknown Cargo
Setting: Mythic Europe
Current Year:
House: Tremere
Age: 25
Size:
Confidence: 1 / ( 3 )
Decrepitude: 0
Warping: 0

Birth Name: Unknown
Year Born:
Gender:M
Race/Nationality: Eastern European
Place of Origin: Ceoris
Religion: Roman Paganism
Title/Profession: ?Magus
Height: 5'7
Weight: 150
Hair: Brown
Eyes: Green
Handedness: Left

Sigil: Pagan Animus
Certamen School: Gladiatrix
Covenant: Lubeck
Domus Magna: Ceoris
Prima: Poena
Parens: Forlitace, Tremere Archmagi of Ceoris
Covenant of Apprenticeship: Ceoris

Intelligence: +2 (3)
Perception: +1 (1)
Strength: 0
Stamina: 0
Presence: +1 (1)
Communication: +1 (1)
Dexterity: +1 (1)
Quickness: 0

Virtues (10): Minor Magical Focus (Certamen), Mercurian Magic (Major), Temporal Influence (Influence Peddler) (Minor), Skilled Parens (Minor), Mastered Spells (Minor), Ash Gild Trained (Minor), Cautious Sorcerer (Minor), Affinity (Mentem) (Minor), Affinity (Vim)(Minor), The Gift, Hermetic Magus

Flaws (10): Weak Spontaneous Magic (Major), Driven (Hermetic & House Rank)(Major), Covenant Upbringing (Ceoris)(Minor), Fragile Constitution (Minor), Difficult Spontaneous Magic (Minor), Small Frame (Minor)

Personality Traits: Pragmatic (+3), Ruthless (+3), Epicurean (+3)

Reputations: N/A

Abilities:

Greek ( Vocabulary ): 5 ( 0 )
Latin ( Hermetic ): 4 ( 50xp )

Magic Theory ( Vim ): 3 ( 30xp )
Parma Magica ( Mentem ): 3 ( 30xp )

Artes Liberales ( Ritual/Ceremonial Magic ): 3 ( 30xp )
Philosophiae ( Ritual/Ceremonial Magic ): 3 ( 30xp )
Profession ( Scribe ) ( Copying ): 1 ( 5xp )

Concentration ( Spell Concentration ): 2 ( 15xp )
Penetration ( Vim ): 3 ( 30xp )
Finesse ( Precision ): 1 ( 5xp )

Code of Hermes ( Rights ): 1 ( 5xp )
Order of Hermes Lore ( Conflicts ): 1 ( 5xp )
Magic Lore ( Magical Traditions ): 1 ( 5xp )

Awareness ( Searching ): 1 ( 5xp )

Etiquette ( Nobility ): 1 (5xp)
Intrigue ( Hermetic ): 3 ( 30xp )
Guile ( Fast Talk ): 1 ( 5xp )
Bargain ( Favor-Trading ): 1 ( 5xp )
Charm ( Wit ): 1 ( 5xp )
Leadership ( Planning ): 1 (5xp)

Athletics ( Endurance ): 1 ( 5xp )
Stealth ( Urban ): 1 ( 5xp )
Legerdemain ( Picking Locks ): 1 ( 5xp )
Single Weapon ( Gladius/Short Sword ): 1 ( 5xp )
Thrown Weapon ( Knife ): 1 ( 5xp )
Brawl ( Dodging ): 1 ( 5xp )

Arts:

Rego: 8 ( 36xp )
Muto: 8 ( 36xp )
Perdo: 8 ( 36xp )
Corpus: 2 ( +1xp )( 4xp )
Mentem: 11 ( 66xp )
Vim: 11 ( 66xp )

Spells:

ReVi25: Aegis of the Hearth
Mastered: 1 ( Stalwart Casting ) ( 5xp )

MuVi25: Wizard's Communion
Mastered: 1 ( Adaptive Casting ) ( 5xp )

ReVi25: Opening the Intangible Tunnel
Mastered: 3 ( Magic Resistance, Ceremonial Casting, Penetration ) ( 30xp )

PeVi10: Demon's Eternal Oblivion
Mastered: 1 ( Penetration ) ( 5xp )

PeVi10: Words Wrought of Iron ( As Oblivion, for Fae )
Mastered: 1 ( Penetration ) ( 5xp )

PeVi10: Cthonic Invocation (As Oblivion, for Divine)
Mastered: 1 ( Penetration ) ( 5xp )

PeVi10: Fellblade of the Art (As Oblivion, for Magical)
Mastered: 1 ( Penetration ) ( 5xp )

ReVi25: Maintain the Demanding Spell

ReMe10: The Call To Slumber
Mastered: 1 ( Subtle Casting ) ( 5xp )

ReMe20: Scent of Peaceful Slumber

InMe15: Perception of the Conflicting Motives
Mastered: 1 ( Magic Resistance ) ( 5xp )

PeMe15: Calm the Motion of the Heart
Mastered: 1 ( Magic Resistance ) ( 5xp )

Hi,

Lingua Franca is the lingua franca. Just saying. :slight_smile:

Anyway,

Ken

Description:

A man of slender, even slight, stature. The keen eyes within his hawkish face are framed by an intensity of mein that some could find unsettling. Strong, high, cheek bones are accented by the absence of any excess flesh in his features which creates a contrast that lends severity to his appearance. Long and flowing dark hair is left free to the sides and rear, though on either side of his brow is a single long, thin braid, the pair serving to keep his hair clear of his face. The braids are adorned, seemingly at random, with a small collection of bronze runic charms. His strong chin is enveloped in a full beard showing more of the man's dark hair yet traced through with wisps of lighter color in the way beards tend to be. The beard has a well kept appearance being trimmed, oiled, and groomed in a very 'civilized' fashion. The mustache and center of the beard on and below his chin however, while kept with similar care, have been allowed to grow and almost reach the man's chest. Here another small collection of bronze charms hang. The man's ears are lost in the flowing black hair.

He is dressed in a richly blue doublet embroidered with golden scrollwork the close fit of which accents his lean form. All the buttons are fastened tightly, making the fit even closer than perhaps it might be otherwise. The thick padding of the doublet makes it seem perhaps a warm garment, and shows it's quality. Long sleeves are laced to the garment, of the same make, and extending down all the way to the man's wrists. Flush with the sleeves are the slightly brighter blue leather gloves covering his hands, embriodered with the same golden scrollwork curling about the palms and knuckles of the garment. Around his waist is dark brown leather belt, looped through a fine bronze buckle and tied in typical fashion to allow a generous length to hang down toward the ground. On the right side of the belt is a collection of several pouches all hanging from a set of bronze loops attached to the belt. The pouches are of different colors, materials, and sizes. On the left side is strapped a typical set of traveller's eating knife and spoon accompanied by a rather utilitarian looking dagger. Finally on his hip is a stern, long worn looking gladius. The weapon is plain, completely unadorned, yet very functional seeming. Below the waist he is covered by a set of unadorned yet quality white leggings the bottoms of which are tucked tightly into a pair of sturdy, hard looking, brown leather boots.

Slung across the man's back is moderate sized brown leather pack strapped tightly closed and bearing a look of being well worn with travel, and perhaps adventure.

The entire ensemble is covered by a large dark blue travelling cloak hanging down near the man's ankles. The cloak is thick and of a good cut, yet unadorned save for the plain bronze brooch which holds it in place.

Gang, we really need to take this back to our own sandbox now, OK? Vortigern, please post your character in the character design thread.

Were you that guy who confused the Carpathian Mountains with the Balkan Mountains?
Coeris in the RAW is far from the Greek areas.

IMC the mundane language around Coeris is something Slavic. That being said if you want the population of Coeris to speak Latin or Greek, I can kind of see that and if its important to oyu, we can work that in.

I don't care so much simply I don't like to see unhistorical things. Urban legends spreed quickly.

So IF you place Coeris in the Southern Carpathians the language of the people depends on the exact place. So it can be German, Hungarian, Vlach (today: Romanian), or a mix of these. The Romanian language is related to Latin and Hungarian is not a Slavic language.

Here's a map about the area. I colored with pink the Carpathian Mountains.

(Where'd you get the map itself?)

You're right, I did confuse the Balkans and Carpathians, but still, given the prominence of the Byzantine Empire in the area and the distribution of Greek in that portion of the world for religious and administrative purposes, I think that Greek makes some sense for the covenant language.

Although, given the Bulgarian expulsion of greek priests and their conversion with Slavonic, I can certainly understand the choice of that language as well and can see the strength of the argument.

-Ben.

-Ben.

Map:
euratlas.com/time2.htm

If your saga is better that way use Greek.
Just please note this is a house rule in behalf of people who like history. :slight_smile:

Many covenants pull grogs and other covenfolk from across the width and breadth of Europe, so a covenant in the Balkans with a mostly-Greek staff is perfectly believable, lots of reasonable explanations. Small, isolated communities tend to keep their cultural and linguistic identity, regardless of what goes on beyond their walls.

I am taking history into account here-- the part you cut is this:

For this half of the Mediterranean, Greek was the Latin of the area. If you wanted the language of trade and effective communication across the eastern Med, you spoke greek. Would the covenfolk or locals speak Slavonic? Certainly. But your educated specialists are going to be trained at Constantinople...where they speak greek. They might be trained in Italy, but the Byzantine church held sway in the area far longer than Rome, so I think it's far more likely that your educated people (who run the covenant) will be conducting business in greek.

Latin had grown in prominence in the late 12th century, as Hungary shifted from the Byzantine church to the Roman Church, and written magyar is based on the roman alphabet, so I don't doubt that noble correspondence was done in slavonic...but Byzantine Church documents would be in greek as much as Roman Church documents were in Latin.

So, I am basing this idea on history. It's not as if I'm just willy-nilly saying, "Hey, I like the idea that they spoke greek better than the idea that they spoke slavonic." The greek language has a pedigree in the area by imperial and religious ties, and was established as the language of the educated elite. It is something to consider in behalf of people who like history. :wink:

-Ben.

OK, some background info:

The "Byzantine Empire" never occupied Wallachia so their borders never reached the Carpathian Mountains.
The region is part of Middle Europe and not the Mediterraneum.
It doesn't mean how many orthodox priests learned Greek, the people didn't. That's the same issue like Latin and catholics.
Btw Slavs used Slavonic and not Greek.
Latin was the ceremonial language of the catholic Church in Transylvania where Coeris is found. Orthodox religion had only some traces here after ~1030. Hungary never shifted the church orientation but in the 10th century both the eastern and western Christianity converted in the country. Stephen I choosed the catholic religion in 997. In the 13th century more and more Vlach settlers appeared in Transylvania. So they reintroduced the the orthodox religion, too.

I suggested 3 suitable languages, however neither of them is Slavonic.
If you choose a language or mix I can help you to find a right place for Coeris or if you choose a place I can tell you the language of the locals.

Covenants are able to bring settlers as they wish, of course.
An alternative Europe saga may introduce Greek settlers in the area of the Transylvanian tribunal, too. It's not bad. Only unhistoric.

I know they speak Slavonic, I mentioned how I would be unsurprised if the covenfolk spoke Slavonic rather than Greek.

But my idea that Greek would be the covenant language is not un-historic. It depends on where you put Coeris. If it's in the Southern Carpathians, perhaps on the Danube river valley side, then Greek is a plausible option. I provided sources last time we talked about this; in fact,this is pretty much the same debate we had last time.

The part you acknowledge and then discard is the fact that in that part of the world Greek was the language of the educated.

Who runs the covenant? The educated people, who'll likely want a language they all have in common, which, if they were educated in the largest urban center nearby, which would be Constantinople, the dominant language would be...Greek! Who would be teaching initial reading and writing to apprentices? Probably the same specialists.

If the covenant wants easy trade with the biggest source of quality materials in the area, which is again-- Constantinople, they're going to want to speak Greek. That trade is going to be a lot easier than trying to get to any of the other major urban centers in the area, with a quick hike down to the Danube, then out to the Black Sea compared to long hikes over mountainous terrain.

Now, if you've got Coeris further north, more towards Germany and (what would become) Poland, or more towards central Hungary, then yes, Greek makes little sense. However, the fact that HoH:TL states that Coeris is built on the Gate of Eurydice almost implies that it is in an area influenced by or involved with Greek culture. That's another point to consider. Why would a site in a more germanic area reference a hellenic myth?

Not only that, but HoH:TL mentions how the Byzantines invaded Hungary and Bulgaria 20 times in the 12C...so while Constantinople may never have "occupied" Wallachia, they obviously had some considerable influence in the area.

Personally, you pick what you want, but I don't think it's fair to say that the option of Greek is historically inaccurate. There's plenty of history that supports such a choice.

-Ben.

*unofficially renames this thread "Unknown Language: History Design" :wink:

Slavs used Slavonic during orthodox church ceremonies.
But I would be very surprized if the covenfolk would speak Slavonic. But even Slavonic sounds better than Greek.

I found the place of the Transylvanian Alps (official site of Coeris): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Carpathians

Has the Gate of Eurydice a traditional site in the mithology?
Maybe the author confused the mountains, too. Sorry, but I cannot get rpg books seriously in historic questions.

I've read your citation. It states the strong influence of other languages in the "Byzantine Empire" e.g. the Vlach who played an important role in the history of the area. It also states he is not dare to assume Greek diasporas here.

:smiley: I never said "Byzantines" had no influence to the area.

So maybe from NY (New York?) Greek seems appropriate as the language of the common folk but I live far closer to this area and perhaps I studied more the local history.

And something to the topic:

If you choose the Vlach (today: Romanian) nationality they speak a Roman language and it sounds belivable if the covenfolk speak a more Latinized version. This way you cannot bother with this Pseudo-Latin.

"Eastern European" nationality sounds silly, anyway. :wink:

Somewhere (way up above, somewhere after this probably should have become a separate thread, ahem), the original question seems to have been forgotten, that the topic was regarding a starting character's native tongue, the one they learn from "the folks around them" as they grew up to age 5.

That would not tend to be "the educated" nor "the specialists", a distinct minority in any covenant, but the grogs who are the majority. So, it is a question of where those grogs came from, and that can be almost anywhere, and any-how, even to have been moved en masse from a completely different part of Europe.

It would be entirely reasonable to have the magi speaking Latin, the "educated" specialists speaking Greek, and the grogs speaking some other tongue - but a "Covenant Upbringing" would result in the latter.

Given the description under the Virtue "Covenant Upbringing", (which is what started this discussion), it's pretty clear that if "the educated" were allowed to provide that native tongue, then ~proper~ Latin would not have been excluded.

(As you were.)