Using Enchanted Devices?

[Aurelius]

This may seem like a really obvious and basic question, but what exactly is the rules procedure for using an enchanted device effect? I mean, I know that for spells you roll the dice, add the bonuses and then take away the level to get the penetration total, but is it the same for effects? Is any dice rolling involved, or do you just use the effect's penetration total (0 unless boosted) to determine how effective it is against magic resistance? I did consult the "Using Enchanted Devices" section on p.100, but it still didn't seem very clear.

[Furion_Transsanus]

@Aurelius

This may seem like a really obvious and basic question, but what exactly is the rules procedure for using an enchanted device effect? I mean, I know that for spells you roll the dice, add the bonuses and then take away the level to get the penetration total, but is it the same for effects? Is any dice rolling involved, or do you just use the effect's penetration total (0 unless boosted) to determine how effective it is against magic resistance? I did consult the "Using Enchanted Devices" section on p.100, but it still didn't seem very clear.

Serf's Parma but I do think you'll only have penetration if it was built into the effect - and that no roll will be made when using the device. It's automatic, for better or worse.

[YR7]

@Furion Transsanus

Serf's Parma but I do think you'll only have penetration if it was built into the effect - and that no roll will be made when using the device. It's automatic, for better or worse.

Indeed. Take note to apply Aura, however, for determining penetration.

[Urien]

Unless I am misunderstanding you...

You activate the item as per the preset activation requirements (Turn the object one time, point and say 'Fry him').
Power is activated and occurs.
If the item was built with Penetration, the power has Penetration..otherwise it doesn't. There isnt any roll.
There has been some discussion on aura and Aegis effects on item powers...

[Erik_Tyrrell]

@Urien

Unless I am misunderstanding you...

You activate the item as per the preset activation requirements (Turn the object one time, point and say 'Fry him').
Power is activated and occurs.
If the item was built with Penetration, the power has Penetration..otherwise it doesn't. There isnt any roll.
There has been some discussion on aura and Aegis effects on item powers...

That matches my understanding.

I don't believe that anyone questions that an aegis effects item penetration. There have been suggestions that a powerful aegis should be able to shut down low penetration items entirely but ther eis little rules support on this issue.

[hkdharmon]

How does the aura effect penetration and magic resistance? I have always been unclear on that.

[Ravenscroft]

Using Enchanted Devices , page 100

Several rules apply to all enchanted devices ,
unless an effect modification has been made ,
and specifically states otherwise.

Effects produced by enchanted devices have a Penetration of zero.

Effect Modifications , page 99

Penetration : You may elect to give the effect non-zero Penetration.
For every level you add to the effect's level , that effect gets +02 Penetration.
If there are multiple effects in a device , each muct be given a Penetration score separately.

[Ravenscroft]

@hkdharmon

How does the aura effect penetration and magic resistance? I have always been unclear on that.

Realm Auras , page 183 (inset table)

Magic Resistance* : Magic Resistance is altered by the aura modifier.
This includes Hermetic Magic Resistance due to the Parma Magica and Forms ,
as well as the resistance of creatures with mystic Might.

mystic Might should be read as (Realm) Might.

*Magic Resistance , page 85

The Penetration section seems to be fairly clear in the write-up on page 183.

Penetration Total : Casting Total + Penetration Bonus - Spell Level (page 82)

The Casting Score (page 81) , part of the Casting Total , is modified by the Aura.
Casting Score : Technique + Form + Stamina + Aura Modifier

[hkdharmon]

Thanks, I know that aura affected the casting total and thus penetration, but was unsure about MR. So this means that in conflicts between two magi, assuming no unusual realm virtues, that aura doesn't really help penetration because MR is boosted by the same amount, but it does make a big effect if a magus is casting on someone with true faith in a divine aura. Wow! Or casting on a faerie in a faerie aura. That means screwing with the fay is not only illegal, it's dumb.

OK, off topic.

[ulf]

@hkdharmon

Thanks, I know that aura affected the casting total and thus penetration, but was unsure about MR. So this means that in conflicts between two magi, assuming no unusual realm virtues, that aura doesn't really help penetration because MR is boosted by the same amount, but it does make a big effect if a magus is casting on someone with true faith in a divine aura. Wow! Or casting on a faerie in a faerie aura. That means screwing with the fay is not only illegal, it's dumb.

OK, off topic.

Powerful divine auras help penetration of spont spells against other magi... (Since aura is applied before division...)

[Furion_Transsanus]

@ulf

Powerful divine auras help penetration of spont spells against other magi... (Since aura is applied before division...)

But since most spontaneous spells already have a less than optimal penetration it won't make a big difference..... Unless you are Diedne...

[Ram]

Yeah, this is bugging me too.

Realm Auras ArM5 p 183
“Spellcasting Rolls: The realm interaction modifier modifies the Casting Score.”
That box talks about ‘mystical abilities’ and ‘Casting Totals’ but makes no specific mention of effects generated by enchanted devices. The main text has examples but they all seem to involve spells, abilities, or creature powers. Am I missing something?

Casting Spells ArM5 p 81
“Casting Score: Technique + Form + Stamina + Aura Modifier”
On the same page the Casting Score is used to generate four types of Casting Totals (Formulaic, Ritual, Fatiguing Spontaneous, & Non-Fatiguing Spontaneous)
So far so good. This info is all about casting spells.

Magical Enchantments ArM5 p95
Instilling Effects ArM5 p98
“The effects instilled in enchanted items are designed like spells, but they are not spells.” “...mimic the powers of spells...” and “... spell like effects...” are the terms of art. Read the Laboratory chapter carefully – neither the words “Casting Score” nor the words “Casting Total” appear.

Where are the rules that state clearly that auras affect the effects generated by enchanted devices?

Maybe it was like that in previous editions and so ‘Auras zap Devices’ is just assumed?

Thanks for your time.

Pax,
Ram

[Furion_Transsanus]

@Ram

Where are the rules that state clearly that auras affect the effects generated by enchanted devices?

Maybe it was like that in previous editions and so ‘Auras zap Devices’ is just assumed?

Thanks for your time.

Pax,
Ram

Welcome aboard Ram.

I dont think its clearly stated anywhere. A device's ability to make its effect is not influenced in any way according to the RAW, but out of game balance applying Aura modifications -good OR bad- to the penetration of an item is a good idea. But whether they work in the first place is not influenced.

[Ram]

Cool. That'll work.
Thanks.

Pax,
Ram