Using Invested Devices in play

I'm fairly new to AM, and none of my players have yet to create an invested device... but one is about to.

I combed through the rules last night, and just am not sure on the following:

When you actually USE a device, do you roll a die? (then add the result to the level of the device's effect to generate a casting total?)

I'm trying to determine what happens when you use a magical device in an infernal aura....


you do not roll a die.

The realm interaction chart on page 183 says that the aura effects penetration however the discussion of this only refers to penetration of mystical creatures. I believe that tth lack of mention concerning enchanted devices is an oversight and auras should apply to the penetration of enchanted devices as well as mystical creature powers.


But I also tend to describe it in non-rule terms as a flavour. The sword enchanted to be lighter feels heavier inside the church etc.

We had a discussion abou this the other day and came to a conclusion...

Magical devices: take the penalty for regios as a spell would. If the lab total falls below the Level...the device does not function...

We also came to another conclusion along that reasoning...Magical device CAN funstion inside an Aegis..but take the hit the same way as a spell.

Of course, if the item has a high enough penetration, it would function correctly, but at a lesser penetration.

This is kinda what I was thinking. It strikes me as a lot of bookkeeping, but makes sense given the basic aura interaction rules.


I don't think that this is correct.

I agree with Erik that the aura should affect the penetration of a device --- so in a penalizing aura the device needs more penetration to affect targets with Magic Resistance. Of course the target's magic resistance might be penalized by the aura too.

However, I think that the device can still affect targets without any Magic Resistance --- even if it doesn't have enough built-in penetration to exceed the aura penalty.

The spell description for Aegis of the Hearth notes how to deal with items used within the Aegis:
"Effects from enchanted devices are resisted by the Aegis unless the item was within the Aegis at the time of casting, or was created within the Aegis by someone who was part of the ritual or in possession of a token."

So, if the device has insufficient penetration to exceed the Aegis level its effect fizzles.

Curious...where do you get that information? IIRC, you have a penalty equal to 1/2 the level of the Aegis...
Which is the penalty I was referring to...
So a device that has a penetration of (say 16)
Aegis Result
20 6 Penetration - Works fine
25 4 Penetration - Works fine
30 1 Penetration - again, works fine
35 -1 Penetration - Doesn't work. Its not a spell, its an effect, so being withing 10 doesn't cut it...

The point is that you are applying the penalty to the lab total of the item. Sure it creates a little more paperwork, but if its an item that a player made, he/she should have that information in front of them anyway.

Oh...I was thinking that you apply the same penalty that you apply to a spell cast towards the aegis (which is level of the aegis) at the point that the item is brought into the aegis, rather than the penalty applied to an effect generated within the aegis without permission (which is half the level of the aegis).

I think that I would apply either penalty depending on whether we are talking about a functioning constant effect device that is carried through the aegis, or a dormant device (like a wand) that is brought into the aegis and then activated from within it.

This is the bit that is wrong, I think. This seems to be explicitly addressed by the RAW, so there's no need to make up rules. The spell description of Aegis of the Hearth says that a foreign item effect is resisted by the Aegis. So, the device needs to penetrate that resistance (which is either Aegis level or half Aegis level depending on the situation). If the device was not constructed with any (or insufficient) Penetration the effect fizzles.

This also saves you from having to remember the construction Lab Total --- which if it's a simple enchanted device is going to be at least twice effect level anyway.

You are agreeing with my interpretation, but disagreeing with me.. :laughing:
To Clear it up...By keeping the lab total, you are keeping the penetration scores...(good? Semantics)
If you have the Penetration score, you know how much you lose off of it.
If the item has a negative penetration total, it won't work at all. If it doesn't have a penetration total in excess of the resistance of the target (after reduction) it won't affect the target.

not good.

Penetration on an enchantment is a modification to the level of the effect. It is only indirectly related to lab score.

As Erik says, the Penetration of a device is part of the effect, not the amount that that the Lab Total exceeds the effect level.

Penetration is first of the Effect Modifications listed in the ArM5 section on Instilling Effects.

Also note the first point of the Using Enchanted Devices section which states that "effects produced by enchanted devices have a Penetration of zero [unless an effect modification has been made]."


I am not saying take the lab total and subtract the negative. I am advocating keeping the thing handy so that you can keep track of things...
So you can subtract the penalty DIRECTLY from the Penetration.

{(Good) means..You understand? As in "Do you understand?"}

The point is that the Lab Total used to create an item is not directly related to the Penetration of a device.

Say, I want to create a wand that casts Demon's Eternal Oblivion, PeVi effect lvl 5, an unlimited number of times per day, with a Penetration of 22. The total device level is: 5 (spell effect) + 11 (penetration 22) + 10 (unlimited uses) = level 26.

So, to create this enchanted item I need a PeVi Lab Total of at least 26*2 = 52. If my Lab Total exceeds this, it does not add to the Penetration of the device. The Penetration is 22, because that's what I designed the item to have.

Obviously you didn't understand.

Well, why do you want to keep track of the Lab Total?

Once the item is created, it is created with the parameters you chose. The Lab Total does not help keep track of any of those things?

I suggest a mass Perdo Mentem effect so you dont have to continue arguing about how to get to the same location by taking a different path.