I think we all do - we're showing off that for as an example of an obvious and easy abuse.
Broken link. [url]https://forum.atlas-games.com/t/the-break-room/102/1] should work.
Ye-es? I have always assumed that people agreed with this?
Even though it's only stated explicitly for demons.
I'm dealing with veteran players new to ArMx. They're capable of behaving like munchkins at times, but not that bad, and usually pretty good at working within the paradigm of a setting.
So they're not really capable of working up to these munchkined out totals yet, and it hasn't occured to them to summon creatures just to kill them for vis. This whole conversation started at our table because one pc had a good story reason to need vis, and he didn't know how perdo vis magic worked yet.
When they get more familiar with the system, and max out on power level, we'll deal with any problems that causes. When it occurs to them how summoning/killing can be abused, I'm sure they'll joke about it, but find the idea of actually doing so in-game a reprehensibly bad idea.
Er... yeah, we did go off on a tangent a bit there I guess.
This confuses me...I've always liked Ancient Magics. What concerns you with that book?
-Ben.
I've always like Ancient Magic a lot but I think I understand where Tellus is coming from. The magical developments in that book are enormously powerful and world changing. I think that's the point of the book. Each section is the seed for a long saga in itself, that can be played out first in seeking out the ancient magics and then just as importantly in exploring their impact on the Order and on the world. Nothing will ever be the same if the Order adopts Adamic Language or Caananite Necromancy, much less both of them. The new magics are far too powerful to just throw into a game as existing NPC developments or casual results of lab experimentation.
...well, of course?
I guess I might be somewhat different in that I never just drop such developments into the game unless they're a part of the larger story? I might hint at these things, or leave the hooks there for characters to pursue if they like, but I'd never just have a tribunal gathering where someone might say, "Hey, did you talk to Adumbratus? No? Why? He's apparently discovered Hyperborean Speech!" These things would be the culmination of a particular long-term arc.
They're Ancient Magics. Powerful. Rare. Practiced by few who unlocked their power. Taught to fewer deemed worthy. When you have a small group of practitioners, you stand a better chance of tradition dying out because of catastrophic loss. That's the price of keeping all that power to yourself, you may have no legacy to speak of when you disappear.
-Ben.
Then we probably see eye to eye on the Ancient Magics book. It's one of my favorites, for all the flavor in it.
But I do think there's a difference between story driven development like the magics in that book and Hermetic discoveries from lab drudgery. I would never let someone have even the minor virtues from Ancient Magic just because they'd rolled enough dice to get 60 development points as per the HoH book. It's a different power scale.
I don't tell people how many development points they've acquired. Bits of Insight provided from other research or discovered artifacts are unknown quantities, but they have an idea when they're close, and that seems about right to me.
-Ben.
I can imagine one Rego Vim with Perdo requisite, +1 Magnitud and the base guideline 10 to transport Vis.