I read here very cool ideas for Vis-sources. Bu a lot of them sound "complicated" to find out - or massive hints have to be given to the players, which spoils a bit the ideas.
My question: Do you have stories, how to find such a vis source/find out how to get the vis?
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There does need to be some sort of flag, I think, that there's a vis source to be harvested.
I'm curious how magi go about locating, investigating, and husbanding* vis sources. Perhaps that's a separate thread.
*Husbanding: to use, care for, protect, and manage with due care.
I bookmarked this ages ago
and adapt it by allowing characters to add Area Lore.
Bob
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First of all, a Hermetic magus can, with a relatively low-level spell, detect any extant vis even a fair distance away: detecting the presence of vis is Base 1 InVi, so doing it at R:Per, D:Mom, T:Smell/Hearing/Vision is respectively a Level 3, 4, or 5 spell - something that many magi can do with non-fatiguing (and thus risk-free, and frequently and casually cast) Spontaneous magic, particularly within magic Auras. Thus, I assume that when magi are present in a particular neighbourhood, over a few years they'll eventually discover any spontaneously generated vis that stays around for at least a few days - very much like people get to learn good spots for finding mushrooms or berries.
Also, technically, a character well-versed in Magic Lore has a sense of the most likely "coagulation points" for vis; in a way similar to how a modern geologist has a sense of what areas might be good ones to prospect for gold. Mechanically, this is explained in HMRE, p.10-11 (I'd allow a Hermetic Magus to use Magic Theory in lieu of (Hedge Magic) Theory):
a character can use his understanding of magic to predict where vis might be found. In this case, make a roll for the character of Intelligence + (Hedge Magic) Theory or Magic Lore against an Ease Factor of 15. If this roll is successful, the character has successfully figured out that, for example, the first fruit of the season is likely to contain vis.
This would allow a magus to find out, in a given locale, even those vis sources that require some specific "action", such as an altar stone yielding vis when appropriate sacrifices are made. Note that magi know much more about this stuff than players, so it's perfectly ok to give players strong hints, just as it's ok to provide translations of Latin sentences to players of magi - the players may not know Latin, but most magi do!
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I was typing out a reply and got distracted for half the day, so will only add to ezzelino's excellent answer.
(type magic) Theory is the appropriate form of understanding a particular magic system. How it is written is based on the book, with HMRE using (Hedge Magic) Theory and RM using (Rival Magic) Theory for example. Magic Theory should technically be written Hermetic Magic Theory but that would involve errata for lots of books. It is actually a listed skill written that way of Viea (RM, p.42). For any characters who might learn multiple forms of (Magic) Theory, I would suggest noting it that way.
RM, p.10~11 contains an almost exact copy of the section in HMRE. I am sure if we searched we would find something similar in other books as well. Thus I believe that allowing a Hermetic Magus to use [Hermetic] Magic Theory to make these rolls is allowed by RAW.
Not only are the spells to detect Vis low-level, but enchanted items that do it would most likely be fairly common. Enchanted items to classify type of Vis and move it, while slightly more expensive, would be only slightly less common. Redcaps need such items in their roll as the Order's Vis bank and they also allow individuals to find Vis while "out & about".
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I will throw in several written for a saga that never happened in Wales around Llyn Brainne. Since they are all based around water, a Lesser Enchantment was created to harvest the vis.
The Vis Net
ReVi 20
Pen +0, 24/day
R: Touch, D: Momentary, T: Individual
When this net is cast into water containing vis, the vis coalesces as pulsating, translucent crystals that can subsequently be untangled and removed from the net. Each slimy crystal is about fist-sized and contains 1 pawn of vis.
Base 10, +1 Touch, +5 lvls 24 uses
The Winter's Melt (Aquam)
Several miles upstream from the covenant lies a natural spring that helps form the headwaters of the Tywi River. At dawn of the Spring Equinox the first water from the winter snows gushes forth. The Vis Net is used to collect this into slimy blue crystals.
Wake of the first Sea Trout (Animal)
North Atlantic Sea Trout come to the rivers of Wales in the Spring to breed. Normally they would spread out across the tributaries of the Tywi River, but Llyn Brainne gives them a large place to gather. A watch is kept for the first trout that make it up the fish ladder. The water in their wake when they enter Llyn Brainne contains Aquam Vis. The Vis Net is used to collect this into slimy brown crystals.
Waters of Creation (Creo)
On the night of the Summer Solstice the waters of Llyn Brainne begin filling with Sea Trout eggs as part of their spawning process. The waters of the lake absorb some of this energy and it is collected with The Vis Net into slimy white crystals.
Gift of Saint Ceitho (Ignem)
On August 7th two spots of unusual temperature appear on the surface of the Llyn Brainne. Each area is only a pace across. One area is just hot enough to scald and one is bitterly cold. Using The Vis Net on each spot collects a slimy bright red crystal of Ignem Vis. Saint Ceitho was a 6th century abbott and saint living in nearby Llanpumsaint near Carmarthen. A nearby spring named after him is said to run cold in the summer and warm in the winter. It is not known how this relates to the vis, other than August 7th is his feast day.
Thanks for all the answers. So practically a good roll or a vis detection spell everday everywhere where vis could be found does the trick. Unlucky for me, i hoped for a nice short story to play instead of a bookkeeping approach.
If you want to get vis from seasonal activity but don't have enough sources...
Creating Vis (as per RAW and requires a lab).
You don't get much, and the amount is based on your Creo and Vim. Lab Total / 10, rounded up. The vis is always Vim-vis.
Hunting Vis (my saga adaptation for quick n dirty vis hunts, inspired by Faerie Stories 4e, p8).
The maga ventures into the forest or wild country for an extended period (season+) to track down and find vis of various types (can also lead to adventures). Involves interaction with locals and also beings, etc. Normally, it's just a one-time source, but one can occasionally be lucky.
Vis Hunt Total: Stress Die + Area Lore + Legend Lore + Magical Aid + Assistance
- Also include the Gift modifier (if you don't have grogs with you who can handle conversations with villagers, etc). May require mini-adventure, Folk Ken rolls etc. at SG discretion.
- -3 if only light risk, i.e. regional familiar forest (in my saga that's entire Kottenforst)
- -6 if very low risk (known areas closer to the covenant)
- Magical Aid: Bonus from the main known InVi spell's magnitude (+1 per mastery), an item, second sight (Int + Stamina + Intellego + Vim) / 5 magnitude if you don't have any known InVi spell.
If you roll a “1” on your Vis Hunt Total, the source is permanent (yield is halved and is on an annual basis, or determined separately by the Storyguide)
Vis Yield = Vis Hunt Total / Scarcity Factor Scarcity Factor where it pays off is on average 5. (Kottenforst (wild faerie forest) has 4, settled areas like large parts of the realm about 6-7, which means if you want to avoid negatives and search both in and outside the forest, it's 5).
Type of Vis (on 1st die 1-6):
- Animal
- Aquam
- Auram
- Corpus
- Herbam
- Ignem
- Imaginem
- Mentem
- Terram
- Vim
Vim Type of Vis / Event (on 1st die 7-9)
- Creo
- Intellego
- Muto
- Perdo
- Rego
6-8. The region common form (most commonly Animal, Herbam, Aquam, Auram, Terram)
9-10. Lucky find - what player needs
Event (on 1st die 0, or on a botch):
1-5. Tainted: Faerie, roll again (for what vis)
6. Tainted: Infernal, roll again
7. Tainted: Divine, roll again
8-9. Disturbance
0. Adventure
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Stories are always possible limited to your imagination. The problem is Vis Hunts can get kind of tedious after the first few and hence why people have come up with more mechanical/bookkeeping methods. Vis sources can also be found or won while on other sorts of stories but again there is no "one way" for you to include those as it's limited by your imagination.
For a vis hunt, a roll is okay - with low results.
But after creating a "nice" vis source, its always involved somehow with a story, either for finding it, earning it or gather it each year. Otherwise I just give them a vis source like "5 Creo Vis inside walnuts" with only a time investment of a mage.
Unlucky for me I didnt got any story connected to your vis-sources yet.
But since I asked for stories, I give two of mine:
The apple-garden
Story: The characters are invited to a festival in a nearby village. Its autumn. Suddenly some kids show strange magical powers and the festival get a funny mess. After that, they can find out with questioning all the involved kids, that only one thing is similar. They got apples from an old lady, which is the keeper of the garden. Asking her, she says that she gave the apples this year to the kids, normally she gave it to the village herbalist, it’s a special brand. But the herbalist died in the spring. Investigation of the herbalist homes lead to the information: First he had a deal with the old lady: medicine against the apples. Second the apples contain Vis. If the do the same deal, they could get the apples. Also, other method of getting the apples is possible of course.
If they don’t find this out, just play it again next year at the festival …
The magical book
Gathering: While on a quest they find a magical book with sketches of magical creature in it. One fixed day in the year (we started while a covenant meeting), suddenly the book opens itself, shows a blank side and one (randomly) mage had a pencil in his hand. It’s clear he has to make a sketch too – The player! Of the mage have to made in in RL. After that the book generate vis accordingly to the creature and how good is it drawn (voting by the group). Aso within a year such a creature is involved in a Story with the covenant. We still have our own book of sketches, funny to look at it, even if the round doesn’t exist anymore…
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I have stories, deals and activities about several of the vis sources in my saga. For a quick taste you can search for "source" on this page (only a limited translation of 15 sessions of the saga, but working on translating the full 460+ page chronicle):
The deals and arrangements around the Kobold of the mine is probably most of the meat here.
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[quote="Ononius, post:27, topic:170995"]
So practically a good roll or a vis detection spell everyday everywhere where vis could be found does the trick. [/quote]
Not really. The vision range vis detection via sight spell mentioned is level 5. Some people may say smell is level 4 but one has to ask, how much scent does vis put out? Humans are relatively bad smellers in the animal kingdom.
Also, the level 5 is for a momentary spell. The magi might get a glimpse or a scent, then the magi needs to recast to get it again. A level 5 spell needs a level 25 InVi to cast as a no dice spont. Not trivial. The other option of using a stamina, recast after 2 minutes to get one's breath back, really strings out the vis hunt, and also brings in botch and twilight risk.
How many spells are needed? I go back to momentary. Eeach area, the magi would need to cast, then turn and cast again. Considering the extent of peripheral vision, I think 4 casts for each spot would cover it, North, West, South and East. If you want to be harsher, enforce perception checks every roll, every time. They may miss the flash of "there is vis".
A willingness to cast a duration concentration spont using stamina does only need 20. With a stress d10, if someone has a bit of InVi, they could get to 20 in a decent aura, however, if you have no magi who focused on Vi or In, which isn't uncommon, it's a tough ask for just post gauntlet magi.
Short Story may well be an option.
Kep in mind that vis detection spells can be the lead in to a story, depending on what versions your players are using. Most especially spells can tell you where vis is, it doesn't tell you how to harvest it or why it is there. Sometimes something may need to be done in a certain way for there to be vis to detect.
As an example drawn from real life- a wiccan woman I know has a ritual where every full moon she holds a cord up in front of her face in front of the moon and "catches" the moon in the knot she ties. After a full year she sets the cord aside for special usage. Throw in a location requirement and special rituals to prepare/fabricate the cord (or a specially gifted weaver) and you have a good potential vis source that cannot be detected until it is harvested.
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A couple of suggestions from my own Saga:
-
A few miles north of London, following Ermine Street to York, is a common ground called Page Greene, where 7 Elm trees surround a great Walnut tree. Just about anyone with Second Sight is aware that the Elm trees have a spiritual presence, and some have seen the seven (Fae) Sisters pay court to the Walnut tree. So Area Lore will allow you to know this is a place of power.
In game some years back a charismatic travelling preacher used the 7 Elms in his sermon against the 7 Deadly Sins that tempt the unwary innocent (in this sermon, it was the Walnut tree). His lesson was so strong that the Seven Sisters now each emulate one of the Sins.
Each Samhain the Walnut Tree drops its drupes. Among them are 7 Vis containing walnuts, each walnut containing Vis of a type associated with a Sin - eg Sloth could be Perdo, Wrath could be Ignem, Avarice could be Rego, etc
If you are not fast, the Seven Sisters collect the walnuts of Vis. Saga dependent but they may apply supernatural effects if you get the Walnut Vis first. -
The town of Guildford on the river Wey, a tributary to the River Thames south of London, was named after golden fields of Marigolds of Virtue. There are still some Marigolds even after the Dominion set in. The local Hedge Witches know how to use the Marigolds of Virtue to gild metal. The saga-dependent-number most golden of the marigolds yield Terram Vis.