What Are Wizard's Wars Like?

The other issue is that the PeVi counter to this ("mask the odor of magic") is relatively easy to cast, as it's one of those "up to twice the base level of the spell" things. So as long as you've got at least a lvl 25 version, no Enchanted Item could detect your tunnel. (Assuming Mask the Odor affects both ends of the tunnel, of course - which I assume it does.)

However, this is starting to get into the counter-to-the-counter-to-the-counter, which is probably not the level of sophistication the Order at Large thinks of Wizard's War - unless your character is a Vim specialist, or something. (In which case this is simply "the stuff your character thinks about in his spare time.")

whistles innocently while looking somewhere else

Yes and no. First of all, remember this is not Muto Vim; the effect must exist before you can target it with Mask the Odor of Magic, which give a "scrying" item a sufficient window to detect the tunnel blink into existence and react. Second, Masking the Odor of Magic can itself be detected :slight_smile:

Personally, I think using Tunnels for Wizard War is often a really really bad idea. They are detectable with relative ease, and offer the possibility of "return shots". As has been pointed before, if you go the Arcane Connection way, it's much better to learn a single R:Arc "offensive" spell and master it (a score of 1 is sufficient): then you can safely sit back in your hiding place casting and recasting it all day long. You'll roll a 40+ on your stress die rougly once/hour, an 80+ roughly once/day of work (10 hours), and if you keep up at it you can expect a 200+ over the duration of the Wizard's War.

In general, I think the "Assassin" chapter from HP is, shall we say, somewhat lacking in tactical sophistication (and makes some questionable rule judgements). Not a really serious defect for a generic Ars Magica product, but a very serious defect for a book chapter whose premise seems to be "Look, I'll show you a lot of smart ideas about waging Wizard's War that you've never thought about!".

Mechanically, it works that way. But from a narrative perspective, it's a horrible idea to expect that you're just waiting for the odds to be in your favor and you explode a couple of times. Remember, while you are pinging away at him he can be doing something even worse to you, until you get that lucky shot. I'd seriously consider giving such a person pursuing that path the opportunity to doing it, at the expense of developing a Magic Addiction. Use an online die roller and set the parameters for rolling exploding dice and I suppose have at it. But that much magic use will have a cost, should have a cost.

I was thinking that the hiding wizard isn't going to often stay where she can be observed or give unnecessary clues to her location to prompt the casting of discern the images. The powerful intellego magic I was imagining was magic to trace the quarry's movements by picking up traces in the environment or minds of people that she had briefly interacted with while in disguise. (Your promotion of Discern the Images of Truth and Falsehood also makes me want to point out that the spell would need to penetrate the magic resistance of the invisible target, would it even work then? The image is destroyed not altered. I'd have to go back and check the spell description again, also doesn't it work on spells that are 2x's its level? I definitely need to look at it again)

I was thinking that there was a Verditius making a fortune by creating just one of these and then renting it out to the participants of a wizard's war. If he's lucky he'll get the two opposing magi to engage in a bidding war for it.

Please do. I'd love some extra feedback on it, but I'm not actually entirely sure it does need to penetrate.

Agreed.

While I didn't have the issues that you apparently had with it, I found the foundational premise that spells over level 20 could not be relied on to penetrate to be in conflict with what I saw in play. Because the chapter and I diverged at such an basic point, the collection of spells that the author created based on this (level must be < 21) premise don't match what I'd see as a particularly appropriate set of spells for their intended purpose.

Leadworker doesn't work that way. But they could build a collection of AC's to the magi. Also, Leadworkers can make connections to Bjornaer the other way, too, at least Bjornaer in Heartbeast form - good reason for a Bjornaer to undergo the ritual to break arcane and sympathetic connections.

Ah - missed the "only individuals" qualifier there - I thought they could quickly fix arcane connections to ANYTHING. Thanks for the catch!

It seems as though a big issue here seems to be the idea that you can cast all day (or at least for 10-15 minutes) at a time, over and over again, until you open-end. While mechanically correct, this seems to violate two issues with me:

  1. My sense of verisimilitude. Specifically, the idea that magic is an art - and that you can quickly create a piece of artwork multiple times over the course of a day, and expect lighting to strike (creatively, as it were), and suddenly create something massively interesting and (artistically) powerful. A few times in a row? Sure - work out the kinks of the variables in the surrounding environment, see what the best is that you can do. But hundreds and hundreds of times? Nah.

  2. Based on how spells seem to be cast, I'd argue that Concentration would play a big roll here, just to keep maintaining the necessary focus to keep casting correctly.

With that in mind, I'd probably push for the following, based on the reading of the Concentration skill:

"If you are attempting a feat that demands you extra attention, of if you have just failed an action and are trying again, the storyguide can call for a Concentration roll before you can make the attempt." (AM5th, pg. 64)

So, sure - go ahead and cast it a couple of times a day. You're gonna botch that Concentration roll somewhere, and (as a GM) I'd argue start taking multiple extra botch dice for that spell for the rest of the day, or simply be unable to cast it for a while.

This, to me, would resolve this issue - and would also imply that "casting ceremonially" mastery would be more of a benefit than this multi-casting idea, as big props + a reasonable education can add up to a +20 casting bonus:

  1. +5 for a big Form prop
  2. +5 for a big Technique prop
  3. +5 for Artes Liberales (assuming 4+1)
  4. +5 for Philosophae (assuming 4+1)

...which seems to functionally be what the magi is actually doing in this scenario. (ie, spending a lot of time on a mystical task, doing it repetitively - sounds kinda like a ceremony, to me.)

Were there a Like button, I'd be pressing it now. I think this is a great in-game response to an artefact of the rules.

discern the images of truth and falsehood says:

So, the way I see it, in the case of invisibility it would be like trying to use an intellego terram spell on a rock that has been completely disintegrated. There's no image left for the spell to act upon.

The spell is target vision, thus it is a magical sense spell. Page 114 tells us that magical sense spells need to penetrate.

Discern the images acts on spells up to the level of discern the images -5 ( I was wrong about the double level thing).

Here's an anti invisibility spell from the Adelbert thread

Seconded.

In thinking a bit more: what are the general strategies for Wizard's War? I think Intangible Assassin is a perfectly fine "conventional" response for an average wizard working their way through their first War:

  1. Grab an Arcane Connection,
  2. Learn a low-level Intangible Tunnel,
  3. Fire a low-level, high-penetration spell down that tunnel multiple times.

And the defense against this is:

  1. Do various things to improve your Magic Resistance,
  2. Learn Intelligo Vim Detection magic and PeVi antimagic to try and defeat the Tunnel, or
  3. learn how to fast-cast to get a bunch of counter-spells down that tunnel.

The reason this is the conventional response seems to be that a hyper-majority (say, 95%) of the order aren't soldiers: they're scholars. As such, their first response to anything is probably "magic!" - and Intangible Tunnel is a simple solution for using the spells they already have. As such, Intangible Assassin is the logical progression of that paradigm. However, at the end of the day - this is a war fought by amateurs, who have to re-create successful strategies based on what they have on-hand. At best, they have reports on previous Wizard Wars regarding what works and what doesn't - but unless they specifically go out and research the events (and assuming those events are even recorded in detail), they probably won't know much more than hearsay and gossip.

To me, the logical progression of Intangible Assassin then starts to basically play out on the Arcane Connection range - using Delay Spells to wait for a chance to strike, or Intelligo spells to detect if the magus is outside their covenant, or timing the strikes to Dawn/Dusk (for when Parma is down), and so on. However, this starts feeling more like a fencing match, with strategic checks and counter-checks going on. Which is fine, but at some point another, more effective strategy will likely come into play.

Another point is that, unless the character is a Rego Vim expert, they're probably not going to have a lot of those meta-magic spells available. Which tells us that you really need to know your target if you're going to plan a strategy around them. Which is probably the case - most Wizards are going to be attacking fellow Tribunal members.

So, to me, Intangible Assassian works best as a scholarly, amateur dueling style; a perfectly fine default, and something that anyone in the Order can get decent at, if they're willing to spend a season or two at it. In contrast, you've got other styles as well, based on the wizard's general capabilities and what they have on-hand:

  1. The Flambeau Option - None of this "arcane connection" nonsense. Just walk up to the castle and start blasting. Or, slightly more formally: Wizard War knife-fighting: getting in close and using Touch/Voice/Sight range. This is likely the strategy that 5% of professional soldiers or monster-hunters use, as they're likely to have the spells and mundane skill to pull it off. And as a guess, the one that is actually more successful, simply due to the capabilities of the individuals involved.

  2. The Jerbiton Option - AKA "the social hack" - getting a mundane assassin to do it for you. Or low-level mind control variations.

  3. the Tremere Option - Getting a whole bunch of your friends to fight with you. (Although they probably do conventional Intangible Assassin wars as well - but likely with shared Enchanted equipment for just this occasion.)

Now, obviously there are more to be said for these three options, and entire chapters (equivalent to Intangible Assassian) could be written on them. But can anyone else think of alternate "schools" of Hermetic War?

How to wage a Successful Wizard's War:

  1. You should really see it coming -
  • Wizard's Wars don't pop out of nowhere. They are a consequence of boarderline anti-social personalities failing to get along. Scenarios like that simmer for months, if not years.
  • Therefore, if you are aware of the currents of politics in the Tribunal, you should be able to see who is likely to declare WW's on you, at least a season or so in advance.
  • Other activities that may constitute a "surprise" Wizard's War would be diabolism or otherwise breaking the Code - but in that scenario, if you plan on engaging in Wizard's Marching, it's because its a lifestyle choice. Which means
  • that you're likely preparing for it anyway. And if you come across a scenario in which you haven't prepared for a Wizard's March, then you shouldn't be involved to begin with.
  • The most useful skill in planning for Wizard's War is Tribunal Lore (Or Order of Hermes Lore).
  • Defensively, if you are caught off-guard: you have a month to prepare. Do what you can, but if needs be, you can retreat to a Regio or the Magic Realm for the duration.
  1. Well begun is half done.

It's all about the preparation. Have your strategies in place BEFORE you declare Wizard's War - then use the remaining month to run counter-intelligence on your target. If you are on the defensive, you should already have a number of strategies in reserve, and should spend the month getting your affairs in order and making sure the strategies are in place.

  1. It's always going to be about politics.

Regardless of the technicalities of Wizard's War, the fact is that you're probably going after someone who is someone's friend. And although Wizard's War is moderately successful at keeping feuds from going longer than a month, the fact is that it's possible to have the violence spill over into the Tribunal as a whole. This is a known issue, and the local Gernicus (and other elder magi) usually keep a close eye on who is engaging in Wizard's War. So if you do decide to engage, be aware that there will be consequences of your actions, even if all your actions are technically within the Code.

  1. Know your target.
  • While there may be a magical spell that can counter any plan you come up with, it's unlikely your target knows them, or can learn them, in the month it takes before a WW starts. Therefore, it behooves you to do your research beforehand - if at all possible, (mundanely) spy on your target to understand his habits, his grimoire, and his likely strategies.
  • You should also understand, if possible, his REAL reason for attacking you, if you suspect at all that that the official reason is a cover for something else.
  • And of course, what his physical possessions are, his type and location of his talisman and familiar, and of course the location of his sanctum, and his vis reservese, his enchanted items.
  • You may also wish to identify his mundane resources and tactics: whether he is wealthy, or Gentle Gifted (and thus able to walk amongst the mundane and engage with them).
  • You should also understand what he values, and what he is willing to sacrifice, in his campaign against you. While these may not be all available to you within a single month, you shouldn't be planning on just a single month - you should be doing this at least a year before the War is declared.
  • Identify any political enemies your target may have. Check previous Tribunal records, as well as the records of Tribunals your target may have emigrated from. It's a bit of a stretch, but you may wish to check the political enemies of their paren, as well.
  • Determine if they have ever sold an enchanted item or written a book - these may be used (I think) as penetration bonuses.
  • The Leadworker virtue is invaluable here, simply because it means you can fix AC's with no meaningful resource hit.
  • Try to figure out his general TeFo levels - and compare that to your own magical defenses.
  • Assume competency on your target's part when determining their threat potential. For example - assume they will get an AC on you, and that they will have learned the Magic Resistance mastery of Intangible Tunnel. While you can of course test this defense (in case your target was foolish enough not to learn it), do not count on this particular attempt in being successful.
  1. Know yourself.
  • Most of Wizard's War is done by amateurs, with whatever tools they have at hand. Make a list of your own advantages and limitations, and if you have time, shore up those deficiencies.
  • Check to see what your own allies can do for you: while they cannot intercede directly on your behalf (unless they declare WW as well), they can, say, cast wards on your locale in the days leading up to the war. Or lend you vis. Or temporarily take custody of your apprentice. And so on.
  • Identify your own magical resistance. Your Vim resistance is of particular importance, as it sets your resistance to Intangible Tunnel.
  • If necessary, you can pay someone to cast a high-level, non-penetrating Aegis for you. While this will not keep out supernatural creatures, it will improve your magic resistance.
  1. Make sure that you are in the right, and that everyone in the Tribunal knows that.

Wizard's War is a serious business. While the passions of youth may flame in your heart, know that your actions still must stand the scrutiny of your peers. A single empassioned war may be permissted - but regular use of War will likely lead to censure and multiple Wars declared on you, regardless of the righteousness of your cause. Therefore, be sure that you have a solid reason for your actions, as well as at least a moderately legitimate reason the rest of the Tribunal can accept. Hopefully, those two are the same, but there may be times in which you cannot justify your true cause by itself. IN that case, you may need a casus belli that the elders at least don't disapprove of.

  1. Identify your criteria for success.
  • While the death of your opponent may be your ultimate goal, it also may be that you simply desire the return of an apprentice, or of an artifact, or a book or some research - or that you seek your foe unavailable for a particular Tribunal vote. If this is the case, do not loose sight of alternate means of resolution; and if your goal ever becomes available, not to extend your reach more than necessary.
  • Most wizard wars, despite their reputation, do not end in the death of one side or another: it's simply too easy for the loosing side to run away. Be sure to keep this in mind when planning your victory criteria.
  1. Always have a back-up plan.
  • While having a plan is fine, having multiple plans is better: unless your first strike is so overwhelming that it knocks your target out the first day (and that is certainly possible), you will likely have to go the distance. Make sure you have different contingencies available for that.
  • Have a small supply of vis that no one, not even your sodales or your grogs, knows about.

8. Know your strategies

Arcane Strategies - Intangible Assassian versus the Flambeau style. Unless you are specifically a monster-hunter, you probably only have one or two (at most) attack spells. Therefore, you best bet is to learn Intangible Tunnel, and go that route. If you have a year to prepare, it is reasonably easy to learn a useful intangible tunnel (such as lvl 15) in a season, as well as a low-level attack spell. The trick, of course, is gaining an Arcane Connection. If you have more of a direct access, then you are probably more experienced in direct confrontation than the average wizard. Still, it would behoove you to collect as many penetration bonuses as possible.

  • Mastery (Magic Resistance) - good to have this mastery for Intangible Tunnel, just to make it harder to use on you.
  • Mastery (Ceremonial casting) - good to have on your main attack spell, so you can get that +20 ceremonial casting bonus (You've got all the props in the room, right?)
  • PeVi Destroy Arcane Connection - good to cast down an intangible tunnel, if it's been cast on you.
  • non-ritual Timed Wards - for Day: have them expire naturally at sunrise or sunset, releasing the spell held within (an arcane-connection-based attack spell) - have these set to go off every day, and you force your target to be in a protected location during those times, thereby reducing his movement.
  • non-ritual circular wards - a cheap way to set up one-shot defenses: they expire naturally when someone crosses their boundary (at least, that's my interpretation).
  • Rego Vim, to non-ritually summon an already-existent spirit to your target's location. Nothing disrupts the concentration so like a rampaging Earth elemental.
  • Muto Vim - Wizard's Reach. This spell can turn a favorite attack spell into an Arcane-ranged effect without adding on additional levels of difficulty for penetration.

Mundane Strategies -

  • basic infiltration and stabbing your target while they're sleeping.
  • Probably used in conjunction with magical infiltration, but also includes simply slipping into the magi's kitchen and poisoning the food.
  • The level of "cinematic assassian" is going to be rare (this is a scholastic organization, not a spy agency) - so they're much more likely to hire someone to do this, rather than do it themselves.
  • Still, it's certainly possible that a magi with a completely mundane broadsword can simply take the magi's head off during the night.
  • Popular with Tytalus and that virtue that grants a split personality.

Other (Arcane)
Has been covered elsewhere - the people to look for are generally your sodales and your paren, as well as any political groups you or your target may belong to. While the order discourages group-on-group wizard wars, you can still gain resources from them: such as borrowed vis reserves, enchanted items, or even spells cast on your behalf (such as wards on your sanctum). Similarly, your opponent may be doing the same thing.

Other (mundane)
Essentially hiring assassians or co-opting cohorts in your enemy's camp. Note that if your target is a Mentem wizard, they may have defenses in place to make this somewhat of a risky proposition, so you'll need to cover your tracks if you go this route. This is probably the best source of Arcane Connections to your target, however - as long as you make sure to gain and fix the connection a year before you actually declare the War. (Judicious use of Rego Mentem can gain you access to your target's hair or fingernail clippings, while Perdo Mentem can reduce the likelihood that the magus will discover anything untoward.) It is for reasons like this that I would recommend not remaining in your standard locale for the duration of a Wizard's War - most covenents are not set up to resist mental domination from another wizard. As such, you may find yourself needing to slay dear friends in the protection of your own life.

  1. Retreat is always an Option.

Identify when it is you should retreat, and where you can retreat to. A regio is a simple retreat, as it breaks any arcane connection to you. Similarly, the Magic Realm is just one Botch away, if you are willing to pay the price.
In particular - the times to retreat are likely the first and last days of the Wizard's War (as you can get away from any Moon-duration delay effects that are timed to go off right at the moment the WW starts or finishes), as well as sunrise/sunset (when your parma drops). This suggests that having a regular Regio to go into is probably a good idea.

  1. Know your Tribunal Law.
    There may be some peculiarities with Wizard's War in your tribunal. For example:
  • does it count as a valid attack if a delayed spell cast before the War starts, goes off during the War?
  • What about a delayed spell (or even mundane trap) created during the war that goes off after the War is over?
  • What about mundane intelligence-gathering?
  • Do grogs have any special rights in a War?
  • What are the consequences for breaking the Code regarding Wizard's War? (If you find the need to break the code, make sure you understand the consequences of doing so. Depending on what you do, it may be a minor fine, or it may constitute justification for a March.)
  • Does healing done by another magus count as assistance?
  • Do beneficial wards cast on the magi during the Wizard's War count as assistance?
  • What are the Tribunal rulings on extended property damage? (can you drop a boulder on a Wizard's tower, if their sanctum is only one floor of the tower?)
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#5 is unnecessary. No one needs a legal reason to declare a Wizard's War.

Heh - didn't realize that was posted - I was formulating an outline, then hit the back button. Ah, well. :slight_smile: (EDIT - OK, so I've now gone and filled it in a bit more with some commentary)

I was trying to draw up an outline of someone akin to Machiavelli or Tsun Tsu, for putting together a manual of Wizard's War - perhaps an experienced Flambeau duelist who decided to write his magnum opus in his final years, or the like. Then I realized it was going to be a LOT longer than just a post, and decided to delete it - but it looks like I hit the wrong button.

The reason I had #5 in there was due to the practical consequences - if you declare wizard's war willy-nilly, a few elder wizards will declare it on YOU. Thus, you should probably have at least a reasonable justification for trying to assassinate one of your peers. So you'll need to have the official reason, and the actual reason, for declaring wizard's war. My (hypothetical narrarator) was trying to distinguish between the two.

Sure - if it's your first time, you'll probably get some leeway from the elders - the passions of youth, and all that. But from his perspective (as someone who does WW's quite a lot), you'll best be served if you have a reason the rest of the Tribunal thinks is at least plausible.

The flambeau option has a problem because running away and (especially) hiding is so easy for a magus. The "flambeau" style participant needs to develop magic to deal with this.

Another spell that the average magus needs to be able to cast, he can probably do this with spontaneous magic if he's a school of Apromor stylist or a vim specialist, is a PeVi spell to decay arcane connections that he or she can cast repeatedly. They'll probably need a way to find all of the objects that are an AC to themselves as well. I'd say that you couldn't do it in one spell of say target room that just degrades all of the AC's the caster, that's too much like the spell thinking. You could do target circle, structure, or room spells that degrade all of the arcane connections in a pinch but I can see that backfiring on the magus/maga easily.

Sure thing - although one response is "if your opponent runs to ground, give them no ground to run to". Which means you'll need to know where their resources are, what vis stockpiles belong to them, what mundane townhouses they own, what regios they have access to, and so on. And once you know all that: burn them all to the ground. If they're not there to protect them, then you can take them at your leisure.

Of course, the way to prevent this is to have your opponent sign away all of their non-essential possessions for the duration of the War - which is certainly a valid (and probably pretty common) thing to do. But it also means you need to do your research up to a year in advance of starting the war, just to find out stuff like this.

And although, in theory, ReCo spells can let you teleport all over the place...not everyone is a Rego Corpus specialist. So they're likely not going to be able to just whip out the Leap of Homecoming on a whim - instead, they'll have to barter for it.

But yes - at the least, the Magic Realm is just a voluntary Botch away, so there's going to be some issues with folks who run.

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Huh - just thought of this one: Wizard's Reach (MuVi) doesn't add on levels of difficulty to the base spell. So if you are able to get 30+ levels of penetration on your favorite Range: Sight spell, a Wizard's Reach doesn't reduce it by 5. Similarly, a jacked-up version (that grants arcane connection to Voice-ranged spells) doesn't add a +10 to the difficulty. It does have the Concentration requirement, of course.

That seems that for some, it would be a viable alternative to Intangible Tunnel.

EDIT - or, I suppose, if you've got the time, re-learn the arcane range verion of the spell, as has been mentioned on this thread. You've got the lab total for it, right?

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