What Books do you want?

I think a beginners adventure would be a great free download...

It would be too loaded with walkthrough stuff on the rules, to be valuable to the people already playing "Now, the GM decides the difficulty rating." "Now the players decide if they are going to attack or be diplomatic." But it would be a great way to get more players.

I'm adding my vote for published adventures or even a pre-generated campaign.

Also, I would be eager to purchase an expanded "History of the Order," particularly if it included a guide to playing in periods other than the default year of 1220 AD (i.e. the Founding, Schism War, etc.). In addition to prominent NPCs, covenants, mundane events, etc., it would be interesting to see the progress in the Hermetic "state of the art." (For instance: "During the war with Davnalleous, the Concentration duration has not yet been introduced, and Ring/Circle spells are sufficiently rare that they are restricted to those with the appropriate Major virtue. The martial utility of such spells was, in fact, what motivated Cleanthes of Bonisagus to fully incorporate Ring/Circle wards into Hermetic theory in the post-war years.")

he wasn't known to the (highly accurate) Mediaeval Authorities

errr - why?

America isn't shown on period maps;
period maps are correct (in Mythic Europe)
ergo, America isn't there

according to the Greeks, who knew what was what, and the Mediaeval Authorities who accepted their word, the world ought to be a (perfect) sphere.
They even measured it's diameter by some cunning measurements...

spiritual beings?
can't tell - ask one of the (non-Hermetic) Mystics who have travelled there in their dreams...

Paradise is surely hidden in a Divine Regio, but otherwise, yes.

yes, but the location appears to be uncertain with differing accounts; also precise details fo the court & environs appear to vary between authors.

they weren't well know, but there were travellers such as Arabs who'd been there.

Sagas probably ought to focus their "realism" centred around the core location of the saga, and have Myth appear at the edges, wherever the edges are in relation to the saga... (so each saga is different...)

not really (not in the world as defined by Mythic Europe - in that world America and Australia have never been, and nothing related to them ever existed.

Your saga may vary (wildly) and include such things - but they are not native to Mythic Europe.

Again - India is known (though accounts can be wild)
Cathay (China) is sort of known, but more Mythic, and less like real China, the more you are in the West.

In the Moslem East ou might get sensible (or near sensible) accounts, and a Novgorod campaign ought to have a defining position on Cathay.

Africa is real, and known - but they seem to have thought the Equator to have been an impassable belt of fire.

Siberia, & Japan simply don't exist

Vinland is a post Mediaeval tale (even though Post-ME history places real Vinland back in ME History). A Nordic saga (like Land Of Fire And Ice) has a real Vinland... see LoFaI.

in the world as defined by Mythic Europe - then yes, of course.

But if you have a saga set in Mythic Cathay, then of course not!

yes - Mythic Europe really was created by the creator of the Book (they are "right"), and all the world around them, was created in the same manner.

An adventure would be very nice. I'd suggest something along the lines of Land of Fire & Ice in terms of format, but more localized and standard in genre: a relatively short book the first half of it devoted to detailing a setting (perhaps Mistridge or Triamore), and the latter half containing two or three story arcs that can be fairly easily woven together with room to spare. A revamp of Faerie Tales or similar books could be very useful in providing adventure material as well.

With the core products done, niche products seem to be the way to go. I'd be very interested in a book on playing Ars Magica in the high-fantasy genre (perhaps not even in Mythic Europe). Genre books (politics, dark fantasy, knightly-adventures a la Camelot) might be interesting, as might be different environments (a D&Dish setting, Mythic Cathay, Mythic Australia and the Dreamtime). A book on Mythic Warfare was previously discussed. Supporting "high-level" Ars Magica (old magi and powerful covenants) might be wise.

The other suggestions raised are also all good. A book of opponents (Order of Odin, Order of Suleiman, Hidden Diende...) would be most useful I think. Books with small snippets of adventures and/or locales (Mythic Places, En Route) would be invaluable. A book on the Order as a whole would be interesting (and perhaps more viable than more and more tribunal books), as would a book on its history and the Schism War.

A book of NPCs and Monsters at various "levels" of power could be useful if done right.

I'd personally consider slowing down ArM releases, it is better not to release poor releases or niche products that won't cover themselves. Perhaps smaller, pdf-only releases could also be considered - if only as a means to beef up the release for the fans without much cost.
I'd also try to focus on entry-products, such as adventures, settings, genre books, and so on - books that anyone can pick up, or that might inspire a DM* unfamiliar with ArM to pick up the book and the core rules and play. A book about the Schism War won't do that - a book about how to play a good dark fantasy game might.

  • Yes, DM. A SG would already be familiar with ArM, duh.


Some things I would like to see:

  1. Bestiary
  2. Mythic History - not a history of the Order, but rather a history of Mythic Europe up to the canon start date. What mythic spin may have occured to real historical events. What magical aspects might exist around the Colosus of Rhodes, or the Pyramids of Egypt, etc. May not be for everyone, but it might help groud new players, and inspire vets.
  3. Mythic Afrika - an overview (regional, critters, people, magic)
  4. A city book - a complete overview of a large city demonstrating all the different realms interacting, regios, guilds, companion adventure opportunities, etc. Not just an adventure book, more of a broad example of all the pieces working together, but also allowing GMs with less than a ton of time to grab a book and go.


Mostly whats already been mentioned
Grimoire (spells, flaws, expanded combat rules)
A character sheet a like :slight_smile: (good luck with that one, heh)

I agree! For those in doubt, check out Andrew Gronosky's Saga of Palatini for ideas: home.comcast.net/~agronosky/ars_ ... index.html

I can't see how any vision of Jerbiton (and Tremere) would be complete without some sort of canonical idea of Thebes and Transylvania to support it. Admittedly a big undertaking, but something well worth while.



Lots of useful replies here, thanks. Please keep them coming. Have your say about the future of Ars Magica.

Two comments.

Lots of people have asked for a Bestiary. However, the Book of Mundane Beasts is online, with rules for generating mundane animals in HoH: Mystery Cults. Each of the realm books includes a bestiary and rules for generating more (and we're planning to continue that pattern). Do people still want another book of monsters?

Adventures are a problem. People say they want them, but they don't sell well. I will, however, give some thought to the problem of finding a way to do something adventure-like that I think might make the sales.

I'm looking forward to more feedback on this thread; thanks.

If adventures don't sell well, can we get free adventures from players arranged?

Other game lines I am interested in are things like d&d, shadowrun and warhammer. All of these companies provide free scenarios for their fan base to get ideas.

If interested people on these boards were to cooperate in making adventures and designing these, thus removing the design costs for Atlas, and provide them to you, would Atlas be willing to provide hosting for such pdf's? Or be able to arrange hosting with the e23 and others?

I know both rpgnow and drivethruprg did quite a business in free stuff to get customer's interested in a line. Does it cost Atlas to make such an arrangement for free stuff.

I think the problem with "monsters" in Ars is two-fold. Firstly, we want a jumping-on point for the kinds of entities we'd expect to see in Mythic Europe. What kind of ogres, trolls, dragons and pixies. Some of those we might expect to see in the realms books but we can also expect them to be fairly generic examples by virtue of context.

Secondly, I think we need to take the approach of not just giving a monster and a story seed, but actually taking space to flesh out a specific individual. What's the hook that could bring the creature and the characters into contact? What sustains/strains the relationship? Where does the creature live (described in terms of magical/mundane properties)? What kind of things could happen/be seen where the creature lives?

Previous bestiery offerings have been interesting but because they've been pretty exhaustive each entry has been small.

Oh, and some decent artwork please.

As for stories, I think the key is to string together a loosely linked saga. I know we've had the four seasons in previous editions but I'd buy into a similar idea. Each book could offer advice on how to approach a covenant/characters in that season. Strong reference can be made to ther other supplements as well to further support those who've made that earlier investment.

A Grimoire first and foremost.

It needs to be a book on magic and ONLY Hermetic pure magic. And what it definitely needs is a gathering of any and all treaties (both IC and OOC) on the limits of magic, a huge and comprehensive list (up to date) of all form and material bonuses for casting magic (not use in lab, though I guess it applies there as well), and a SEPERATE listing of the Tech and Form basics as listed in the main book above each listed tech and Form. Basically some kind of quick flip guide that doesn’t require going through every single Form and it's attending spells to get what you want. As well as a complete listing of all possible pure hermetic magic interpretations of Range, Target and Duration would be nice. Than just a crud load of pure hermetic spells.

A Bestiary would be nice.

I realize we have the options for creating normal and mythic beast through books we have now, but what I am seeking is consolidation, I don’t want to pick up three or four different books to get to the final result if I can help it. Information on how to create normal and mythical beasts NOT listed would be of great help if they were located in one source. And a comprehensive listing of such creatures would be nice to have a base to work from.

The Tribunals

I Really want these books. but I would be loathe to buy. what? 10-13 books like Guardians of the Forest. Perhaps, something more along the lines of a series of books compiling the tribunals by region instead? Thebes and Levant for instance, Western Europe, England and Ireland together, etc. A single book detailing the Doma Magna would be nice as well, with canon info on them up to the starting ate of the game period. General ideas for how each is planning to go into the future, not unlike, Crintera is represented in Guardians of the Forest.

Foreign Magic

We have foreign magic in the form of Muslims and Jewish Magic courtesy of the Realm of Power :smiley:ivine. But are there not other forms out there we can see, stronger than Hedge Magic? I ask because I notice a tendency to see Hedge Mages in various works who are considered by the Order "To be watched, but not of significant importance to force to join". An example of when and where the line is crossed would be nice. What kind of magic, and at what power does a mage look over and go "Hey. get your butt into Ex Miscellanea, or we're going to kill you!". The rules for such magic would be nice as well. Back in third Edition they had Shamans (not necessarily a good idea if in reference to America of course) Druidic magic would be interesting (True druidic, not a Hermetic version), a Real Nordic Rune-worker (Spaecraft), things like that.

I guess my main request would be a gathering of material from disparate sources when they apply to the same thing, into one volume where they are easier to locate, would be my main concern, as with Hermetic Magic and the Grimoire idea.

we all loved the 4e bestiary, not because it was a book of monsters, but because of the flavour text...

A set of rules for designing beasts is nice, but we've got one now, and don't need another ... but the strange tale of the Beaver's testicles can't go out of print!

...and the Jews, and some Christians...and Alexander. The versions of what Alexander did there are so well known that in "The Cantebury Tales" the monk apologises for mentioing so well known a story. If anyone knows a good copy of the Romance of Alexander in something like modern English, send me a note, please?

Ah, no, the Voyage of Hanno disagrees with this, so at least this is arguable.

Except that the Rus are in Mythic Europe and they know about Siberia...

in the world as defined by Mythic Europe - then yes, of course.

But if you have a saga set in Mythic Cathay, then of course not!

There's still a single omnipotent creator in Cathay. You just can't get him to do anything for you: it is not an interventionist force.

What do you think about publishing novels? But only good ones. Novels always inspire fantasy.

Tu put simply, i'd like a Storyguide book.
A book to help starting and experienced storyguides to create different types of sagas, some do or don't. A good book to clarify some concepts more abstracts like hermetic politic, what happen's in tribunals. More guidelines and how-to than real rules here. How to create differents moods, to run a saga properly.

I really miss a bestiary, not much a mundane one but a more diverse one, Aligned with all realms.

I agree too with the "high-level" book with challenges to old mages, what happens with arch-mages and stuff like that

Thanks for asking !

I like the idea of a few different takes on a saga or on the schism war. I think that this might fall pretty close to what we see in tribunal books or what we'll see in ancient magic.

The idea of a grimore might be superseeded when the book from the open call is put together. Won't that book be just a big pile of hermetic magic? (or are the open call submissions just a part of it?). I would certainly like to see a collected list of spell guidelines at some point but I hope that it is too early for such a thing. I'd like to see more guidelines in many more products before a collection of them is made.

Put me down for another vote regarding hermetic antagonists.

I'd love to see an alternate combat system or two in a book but I wouldn't want it to be the basis of any book.

Between the realms books and the book of mundane beasts I don't really need another beastiary.

Something along the lines of the old Mythic places and more mythic places books would be fun. I think that they should be very SG adjustable because there really is a huge range in PC power available within the game.

I thought when fifth edition came out that the might fifty creatures in the book were good examples of top end opponents (who is going to be able to generatea 50 penetration with the new rules?).

However due to the magical focus virtue In my game (with characters 21 years out of apprenticeship) I've got characters with casting totals in the sixties. The Flambeau in my game, between his penetration his affinities, his stamina, his magical focus and his talisman attunements, can genrerate creo ignem penetration totals of something like 83 + stress die + confidence + aura - spell level within his focus.

I think that creatures with mights in the range of 60-80 are appropriate foes for magi and we've got very few of these entities detailed in the game. The present books seem to peg good long term foes for characters at might 40-50 and in my experience might 40-50 creatures do not have sufficent defensive strength to serve in the roll of foil for a covenant. After a few years one of the magi is bound to tire of their opponant and turn it into a frog.

Future books could serve to provide interesting foes for magi who are out of apprenticeship more than a few years.

I am sure that I lost a lot of hints about books in the making recently - but if some of my wishes are already about to be fulfilled, that's just the better.

Some '5th edition Hedge Magic', providing the rules to make and play the run-of-the-mill wise-folk, charm-crafters and herbalists, IMO could add many atmospheric options for PCs and NPCs on all the levels from grog to mythic companion, and make it a lot easier to set up challenging adventures among the commoners of Mythic Europe.

A good seller, and a companion piece to 'City & Guild', could be something like 'Castles & Battles': while it is rather easy to research the historical background of the warfare in your Tribunal at a given time, setting up the feudal economies of warfare and castle building, the general structures in knightly and noble families, or the social and dynastic advancement of knights and nobles through alliances, service, luck and opportunism, might deserve some game rules and character options.
And then this book is also a chance for expanded combat rules, mass combat rules and such.

A second well designed Tribunal book would also be a big boon, especially since many SGs appear to have problems with the German feudal society and its working, hence cannot fully exploit GotF.

Kind regards,



Beastiary - not so much, the 4th edition is still out there and can be updated, plus animal stats are readily available.

An overall tribunal book is interesting, but I really like the detail and hooks provided by GoF; unless of course we could get a 600 page tribunal book.

A Grimorie Book would also be great, more spells, more items, more how the order works type of stuff.

And of course, a 300 page Tribunal of Thebes book that includes significant Constantinople and Venice detail would be outstanding. With a 300 page Volume II: Transylvanian Tribunal so we can have the entire mess of 1200s power politics of (remanents) of the Eastern Roman Empire.

  1. A Grimoire. I just don't feel the main rule book has near enough spells in it; not to mention a complete lack of enchanted items.

  2. Bestiary. Call me old-fashioned, there is a certain amount of fighting monsters and looting lairs in my game. If you look at all four Realms together there are more than enough good, authentic legendary creatures to fill a book of their own. (I would not want to see a repeat of the 4E bestiary, which IMO was very academic and covered too many mundane creatures at the expense of the fantastic ones).

  3. Order of Hermes. Some aspects of the Order have been covered in the House books, but I think there is a lot of potential left untapped.

  4. Mythic Europe Sourcebook. By "sourcebook" I mean things like maps, little mini-stories (a la Mythic Places), medieval (not classical) legends, and generally more of the same stuff we see in Chapter 14 of ArM5. Practical, playable material like that.

On the Subject of Bestiarys;

David has said that we shouldn't expect too many (if any) magical traditions in Realms of Power: Magic. I'm thinking tha this leaves enough space in the book for a whole mess of critters. But I suppose that I'll find out next summer along with everyone else (or perhaps a week earlier by dint of having the good fortune to live where I do).

I think that by the time all four realm books are out wwe won't actually be in great need of a full beasiary (at least from the angle of having sufficent critters to use in the game, we may wish for one for other reasons). But we very well might still have an appetite for a few more detailed more illustrated creatures.

I'd bet that a beasiary /mythic places / legendary lore sort of book might make people happy. A book with 20 -30 four to six page adventures each pretty much deatailed enough to run as is, and each built around a magical beast. Something that a lazy storyguide ccould pick up and drop into his game without a lot of work. something to make troop style play less intimidateing for the newbie storyguide who is trying to run a game for a bunch of old hands.