What would you change in a 6th edition?

Games Discussion Ars Magica
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Yes, sorry, fair point. I didn't so much mean "reduce" as "change". I was thinking in a "mundane" (for want of a better word) environment that magic is harder/takes longer etc (perhaps is more ceremonial) and the dominion is a total nuisance; really it is where the companion characters shine and the magus goes there because of necessity. In the regio's and magical realms magic would be MUCH easier and more powerful (auras of 5+ on a regular basis) and what occurs in the magical realm impacts the "mundane" (So the Crusading Magus helps the crusader by torching a particular hut guarded by a basilisk in the magical realm rather than fireballing soldiers on the battlefield for example). From the Mundanes perspective Magi are the stranger with the pointy hats appearing from round the corner, imparting some strange riddle or useful advice before disappearing round the next corner.

Yes... from the mundanes perspective. From the perspective of the Magus though they absolutely are, and sometimes the results of the labwork might leak out into the mundane world. Perhaps Dragons don't lay waste to a town on the mundane level, they attack on a magical level, superimposed over the town, which would impact the mundane form of the town by fires breaking out, plague, riots and mundane violence what-have-you.

I do miss 4th Ed Hermetic Architecture, I much preferred it... I suppose though it depends on how regios work... regio's can be pretty huge theoretically or pretty tiny. I really like the regio network concept in Between Sand & Sea, some regio's connect with other regio's but sometimes you need to return to the mundane world to get to the next access point (boundary, vestige, microcosm or what-have-you).

So exploring and finding the vast number of routes & regios in an area might take a player party years; as was pointed out elsewhere:

Totally agree, but I would like more of the Tales type books...

Oh I absolutely agree! If only they would redo the 3e Tribunals books to 5e standard!

12 months rather than 4 seasons would be kinda cool from the horoscope/enigmatic wisdom point of view (I'm sorry, but it will be inauspicious/un-apt to finish investing your talisman for the next 7 months... what other projects have you got on at the moment?)

163

Ooh, that's a neat idea.

164

Onramping: 6th Edition needs a clear 1-2-3 approach to being a mage.

Organization: Goes hand-in-hand. 5th is great, but not well organized.

Adoption and integration of the quantified character creation approach from Grogs and Apprentices (the term for which I don't recall right now) for magi. I think this should allow for starting, newly-Gauntletted magi built as though they actually just exited apprenticeship.

A clear set of requirements and qualifications. There are a few skills that are necessisary to be a functioning mage, but their importance is buried in the rules. Scribing, for example. Artes Liberales, for another. Philosophiae is not mandatory, but important, and should be called out.

Companionization: The role and function of companions in and around the Order should be more clearly presented. I don't mean uniformly crystallized, but addressed.

The Society of the Order could use some attention.

So far, this is how I think the rules and presentation should be adjusted. What I would change in the setting:

I like the Houses as presented, overall, but there are some flavor issues that should be given a hard look at.

There are also House rules and options that could be tossed out. For example, Bonisagus figurine magic seems to have vanished; there are other elements of Bonisagus structure (the traveling libraries, for example) that could use an overhaul. Every House has this sort of problem that could use a serious reconsideration.

I do not think the whole of the setting should be burned to the ground and rebuilt. I'm almost never in favor of that sort of wholesale rebuild.

Certamen should be once again rebuilt.

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Also, Part Must Be Destroyed.

Or at least merged with Group.

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166

There is a particular weirdness with Flexible Formulaic Magic, which forces the magus to learn the spell with target Part in order to enable targetting individuals and groups with one spell. This makes the spell useless or nonsensical as written in some cases and therefore prevents changing duration or range.

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It depends on the specific spell, but part is not necessarily nonsensical.

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Introduction of the Target Pair (two individuals, 1 magnitude higher than Target Individual) is a very simple addition to ArM5 rules. It is useful for spontaneous magic, while for formulaic magic it is already covered by ArM5 p.114 'Changing Ranges, Durations and Targets'.

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One of the things I would add is a new category of experience advancement, something like Schooling, which would work in a way to allow for experience points to be put into numerous Abilities. I am not sure how to best figure out how much is gained though I think some benefit needs to exist for having really good teachers.

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arts and academe already has these rules, though it does still assume a single teacher and subject matter per season, which realistically was pretty standard for the time, even in university education...

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Yeah I looked in that book but unfortunately it makes it seem like having only one class is what occurs and that is not want I want. I want someone who is basically in a full time school situation and the rules to allow for experience expenditure into multiple Abilities.

Which, by the way, is something we already see - Artes Liberalis is multiple subjects in one Ability. Now, I am not saying we should divide that as that is not the point, but basically learning that Ability is in a fluff way means studying in multiple subjects.

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172

I don't think the issue here is about teaching per se- you might as well point out the option to read from multiple books in a season. Both of which are relatively modern forms of learning, which is why they are not represented in Ars Magica rules.

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Except when one looks at the academic Abilities of Artes Liberales, Philosophae, even Magic Theory what you are seeing is a number of subjects that are united under one particular heading. Which leads me to may say that those who are taught say the Hermetic Arts might gain a pool of experience that can be spent on Latin, Magic Theory, and the fifteen Arts. In-story this is basically them taking various 'classes' while mechanics its a single advancement activity.

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And again, the rules for such things are already in art and academe, though that is specifically for traditional classes. If the SG feels that similar rules could apply to hermetic training it is not hard to implement. Hardly something that needs an edition revision.

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So, in rereading the past week or so of these posts... In summary, we want a chaotic mixture of 'make it cleaner and more elegant' with 'give us more options and systems to use'.

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176

I want significantly quicker character generation (especially for NPCs) whilst maintaining the flexibility and toolkit nature of 5e.

So, pretty much, yes. It's part of why I hadn't posted in this thread previously - my wants aren't even compatible with themselves, let alone everyone else's.

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177

That's simple, the question is what operating systems does the software need to be compatible with?

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I'm actually not sure that would help much - I already have an Excel spreadsheet that does most of the maths for me. The problem is deciding what virtues and flaws to pick, and what spells (and then rejigging everything so you have the necessary lab totals).

Admittedly, having all the combat totals automatically output for me would be good - my spreadsheet sort of does that, but not all that well, and they're a bit of a faff.

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I've been thinking about combat system revisions; I think the game could try to abstract things into a more general conflict system. Something abstract enough that it can be applied to most situations in which two or more characters are in conflict and victory is something exclusive to one group.

Something more abstract and general could handle combat, debates, long-term political conflicts and the like; that would likely be faster and more satisfying than the current system for that. Perhaps something drawn from how Fate handles some conflicts?

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If the software better organized the virtue and flaws by functional as well as game categories it would certainly streamline the process...

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181

Playbooks. We need stereotypical PbtA-style playbooks for each House, with the core abilities and common options listed. So e.g. the House Bjornaer one would say have a thing for Heartbeast, and invite the player to pick an animal from a short list (bear, wolf, eagle, something else), each with its own special ability. The Flambeau one would ask whether they want to be from the school of the Founder, Apromor, or Boreas, with each one having a specialty spell they're particularly good at. And so forth. Pick a couple of sterotypical virtues and flaws from equally short lists, a few words about how you look, a few more about your parens and a shield grog, and there you are.

(These could easily be done under 5th ed rules for a quickstart kit. You wouldn't even need all the Houses, just enough options to give some choice to a group).

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