Which books do you recomend to get next?

In my book no Ars 5th edition hasn't proved worth it's price (that isn't to say I haven't looked for buying them cheaply).

IMHO the layout is unparalleled in terms of accesability, setting theme and inspiration. When it comes to art, it is very subjective, and personally I'm not particular fond of a majority of the pictures, but i put that down to personal taste and not quality.

:sigh: I'm with you brother.
We should start a "Book-buyer Annonymous" club or something.

The art of ArM5 is... contravesial. :slight_smile: I think the overall graphic design is top-notch. Nice, effective, and not boring.

The art, though... well, take a look at the art of the covers over at the Atlas website. Let's look at Societas [atlas-games.com/images/product/0285.jpg] for example. Notice in particular the paintaings on the four corners - the angel, faerie, dragon, and demon. This is a style common in ArM5, and which I find problematic. It's supposed to be medievaly. It seems more like bad comics to me.

This isn't the only art style, however. Especially in the supplements. I'll take a look and give you a better opinion of the art in the different supplements when I get home from work...

I have to confess that I found The Infernal actually to be pretty much Monster Manual in content. Too many demons described. And I didn't actually find it too bad, in Marklawford's meaning - the demons were described more as lacking virtues than possesing vices. There was a distinct lack of evilness about it. I found it rather disappointing.

When I'll get home, I'll post a bit about the Book of Fiends and The Infernal, for comparison. Perhaps that will show what I mean.

Yeah, i keep thinking (erroneously) that i'll stumble across a hidden gem of gaming goodness that will trump all other system/supplements. What i keep finding is pieces of games that i like.

I don't mind the cover so much. If the b/w art in the interior took a nosedive though, that is what would bother me more. I have the Game of Thrones d20 book, and while much of the color art is good, some of it is god-awful Anime-style and i hate it with a passion.

Do you mean Green Ronin's Book of Fiends? Now THAT is one of the best demonic books i've ever seen. I mean, the art (all b/w) is creepy, disgusting, and some of the pictures make you feel dirty (as such a book should). Plus, it's not just a combination of statistics, but it is the layout of the whole demonic hierarchy and plot hooks for a D&D campaign. Again, it is a book i have never used, but i am happy to have it in my inventory and i would never sell it (unlike half the other books i own that i would be happy to sell)

Well, you haven't read ArM5 yet, haven't you? :smiley:

Really, ArM5 is very very good. And nearly all the line is pretty good too.

Indeed. (I only read the first, Demonic, section.... but I'm sure the rest is as good.) Now imagine all that.... as NOT being in the Infernal. Sorry, but when it comes to depicting evil, Hordes of the Abyss [the first part of Book of Fiends] walks all over The Infernal. Artistically and in terms of pure evil entities and plots.

The Infernal isn't all that bad. It just pales in comparison to one of the greatest RPG books ever (IMHO).

I'll write down a fuller review of The Infernal in comparison with Hordes of the Abyss. Later.

Yes, please do. And i just want to add, anyone else looking to add demons into your Ars campaign, you can't go wrong with getting The Book of Fiends. You can ignore the d20 stat blocks, but what's left are hundreds of demons, princes and lords filling every niche of hell and human contamination and usurpation possible. It's good, evil stuff for those interested and could be ported to just about any system.

Here's a link:

amazon.com/Book-Fiends-Chris ... 410&sr=8-1

Personally I'm very hostile toward anything D20. That's not to say that I presume it doesn't include anything of value - it must just looking at the volume being published. So it is not of quality. I dislike it fervently because I think the trend of D20 is sapping the inginuity of the industry - it is the mastermind-like genious of WoC to use this tool to undermine creativity and make it all into un-distinguishable homogenic pulp. It's sickening. :imp: :imp: :imp:

However, on a more constructive note, there is a supplement called the Black Monks of Glastonbury that bridges Ars Magica (4th) and d20. Very fittingly it addresses issues such as corruption of the most holy.

What a great quote! This made me giggle like a fiend, thanks.

You're welcome.