Wizard's Boost and Imperturbable Casting

So what? It makes sense to require a D: Sun Wizard's Communion joining a group of magi into a Communion for casting a ritual. Even without the errata.

I try to answer this point of yours in the light now shed upon "D: Sun Wizard's Communion":

You then wouldn't have joined the Communion for the casting in time, hence couldn't have participated in or contributed to that casting before. So, even if you allowed the casting of Wizard's Communion simultaneously with another spell - for which I see no argument, as it doesn't target spells - that wouldn't allow you to boost the ritual the other magi were casting by butting in at the last minute. It would indeed even be unclear, whether you actually joined their Communion that way. Right?


I hope this helps clear it up for you:

Would you mind to not only post the text, but also the reference to it?


No. Not Right. Why can't all the participants in the Communion for a ritual wait around for the right timing to cast WC at the last moment? I don't understand your switch in arguments, first you say that MuVi is targeting spells and now you say that it isn't. You're saying that because MuVi allows magi to come together it isn't targeting a spell? That's kind of odd, since that's the entire purpose for Wizard's Communion, allowing magi to come together to cast a single spell. The target is the spell being cast by one person, not the person casting the spell.

Again, if the Muto Vim spell must have a duration long enough to cover the entire period of the casting of a spell, as is made explicit for spells which affect rituals, then it is implicit that Muto Vim spells are cast before whichever spell they target. It is also implicit that you are not casting two spells simultaneous.

Berklist. July 6 2007 at 3:28 AM (not sure what time zone that would be). It was in the Finesse Mastery thread.

Also, I forgot to reply about the Spell Mastery option now that I'm on my computer.

Notice it says "related to" the spell, not just on that spell. This could easily be read that Imperturbably Casting for either one would apply in this instance. This can make a lot of logical sense, too. If you can do a spell without much concentration, it's both harder to lose concentration on it and it's less likely to interfere with other concentration. For example, it doesn't make much difference if you start talking to your friend before or after you two start walking. The walking doesn't tend to cause problems for the talking, and the talking doesn't tend to cause problem for the walking. That's because we've trained at walking for so long.

Didn't we discuss this not long ago?

There's only one way to cast both in the same round: ArM5 p174. "A very fast magus may be able to cast more than one fast-cast spell, but this is beyond most magi."

Nice a quote from Mr. Chart himself :slight_smile:

But it adds even more questions. You cast a MuVi spell in round one that targets an effect that doesn't yet exist and are able to hold the MuVi formulaic spell till the next round to affect spell #2. Should all MuVi spell be errated to be concentration duration?


Momentary spells can last up to one round, so no problem there.

There is also some precedent for a target not existing until the end of a spell being cast: lots of Creo spells. It's not the same, but it does show there is some wiggle room with targets, which is what David Chart asked us to accept to allow MuVi to work when he mentioned "blurring."

That's a a rare find, whose correctness, completeness in context, current pertinence and validity I cannot verify. So I take it on trust, that we have a not generally accessible, but still pertinent seven year old Berklist rules clarification by the line editor, with the phrase:

So the OP question:

should be answered with:

According to the line editor, the rules - including the errata - are blurred on this topic. But on the Berklist he ruled 2007 that the Wizard's Boost (Ignem) is cast before the Pilum of Fire, and is hence the spell to concentrate on.


That's a little bit too tricky, if you consider that the complete definition is:

No mention there of concentrating on other spells while casting the mastered one.


This is the reasoning which makes the most sense.
For the concentration question, I think the intent was that the MuVi spell should be mastered to gain the bonus. However it seems reasonable to apply the mastery bonus as appropriate if either spell is mastered, as the mastery statement uses the word "all". If both are mastered then apply the higher mastery adjustment.

Well, the Berklist archives seem to be down right now, but last time I went searching they were generally accessible.

It doesn't matter. Look at the logical structure since you're worried about the validity of my statement. It says "all Concentration rolls related to the spell." It is then followed with some examples. Examples generally do not cover the entirety of what they are examples for. More specifically, the second statement does not become false if the bonus also applies to casting this spell while maintaining another spell.

Here is an equivalent:

Being completely deaf makes it impossible to hear all sounds. This makes listening to a telephone or an answering machine impossible.

Would you say concluding that listening to a television is impossible for a completely deaf person, too, is tricky based on this statement?

I also didn't say it has to apply. I said "could easily be read that..." and that may even be a weaker statement than I should have made since my statement could be made of a common misreading, too; and in this case it's not a misreading.

Where is this rule?

I admit it's rare for someone to begin casting a non-creo spell (even a ritual) without the target being present, but I've not seen any rule saying you can't. Would you, for instance, disallow anyone casting a healing ritual unless the target is being touched throughout the whole ritual?

Because it's touch range, and if the target has to be there for the whole casting then you can't stop touching them (even briefly) for at least an hour

Well, that puts new light on the need to penetrate for Creo Corpus rituals...