Wizard's Communion and Penetration

Has anyone dealt with Wizard's Communion and Penetration before?

For instance, if a group of eight magi all know Wizard's Communion at level 10, they can work together to cast Clenching Grasp of the Crushed Heart (PeCo level 40).

The way this works (as I understand) is that the lead maga casts CGotCH as if it were a level 40 / 8 (or 5) spell. Assume her casting total is 35.

Does that mean that she has a Penetration of 30 (35 - ( 40 / 8 ) )?

This seems to offer any sizable covenant a rather terrifying "alpha strike" against their enemies.

--Chris

I may be wrong but the way we have always worked it is (using your example): spell level (40)/8 =5 (casting level) which leaves 35+SD for penetration (provided, as you say, the casters casting total is base 40 (or minimum 30 since you can be within 10 for formulaic spells and still succeed with fatigue)).

And yes it is supposed to offer the alpha strike since the aegis is meant to keep out anything of that Might level or below.

He is correct. The very Aegis itself needs to have this "Alpha Strike" Penetration in order to be effective. In other words, the Penetration must equal the level.

With the CGotCH example, I would suggest that you not anger a whole covenant of magi thusly :smiley: But a sturdy Parma score and a strong Aegis of my own should protect me from your evil assasination attempts!

It all balances out in the long run.

Aegis + Parma would seem enough to defend against penetration of this magnitude, but a spell like this would seem to be an automatic kill of any magus caught outside his covenant, Parma or no.

--Chris

Ars Magica has a lot of Automatic Kill situations. You can design a starting magus to have a Penetration of 30+ with some exceptionally deadly spells; Pof, IoL, CGotCH, and others. Take a Puissant Affinity with each Art of the pair, a Magic Focus, and Life Boost. You are there. Even without Min-Maxing, an Arcane Connection can take you there. If you want your senior bad @$$ magus to be immune to such tricks, he needs a Parma of at least 8 or higher plus some handy counterspells.

It's Magic Resistance, not Magic Immunity :smiley:

That's why smart magi study their Parma to high levels :wink:

While I'm aware that you can pull off some nice instant kills with a healthy investment of virtues, this seems broken to be as it requires very little investment.

The seven assistants can just be newly Gauntleted magi who have spent a season or two in the lab (level 10 MuVi is not hard). The primary caster only needs a relevant casting score of 30 to 40 to get some very high penetrations.

I ask because the magical researcher at our covenant (who is also a rules geek :slight_smile:) has just discovered that our eight magus covenant can do this sort of thing, or rather, will be able to with one or two seasons of investment on the part of the magi. These are magi who are 5-6 years out of their Gauntlets. This is a general effect that lets any of them cast any spell then know (one at a time, obviously) at very high penetration.

If this required Virtue investment, or only broke one type of spell then I'd be less concerned, but this seems to break all spells and seems to be the obviously best way to cast spells at all times.

Also, they've been making jokes about Captain Planet. That's a line that no player should ever cross :wink:

--Chris

The counterbalance is to ask if you and your sodales want to dedicate yourself to mercurial magic? In as much as you can achieve powerful results with Wizard's Comm, remember that one botch is all it might take to send the lot of you into twilight. That would wipe the smirk off their faces fast. :wink:

It all comes down to how the players play their characters and how the SG runs the saga as to whether this sort of communal spell-in would be a regular event in the life of the covenant. After all, there's plenty of things a good SG can do to keep magi occupied in their labs or elsewhere (and duly separated), if the characters themselves refuse to appreciate the general preference of Ars magi to focus on themselves and their own activities (as opposed to characters from the game that shall not be mentioned).

Well, they are not newly gauntleted then, are they? It really sounds at just the right level to me. It is a team of magi. Being this friendly and cooperative in killing someone, how pleasent :slight_smile:

Is the victim standing there or are they using an Arcane Connection? And what are his Parma Magica and Corpus scores? I am thinking you can get a Penetration of 30, maybe 35 max. That isn't that spectacular. As a lone five year magus wthout min maxed V&F's I can do that. Easy.

Parma score of 5 and a Corpus of 11, and I just resisted your scary Penetration total (unless you are using an Arcane Connection, then all bets are off :laughing:)

At AC Range the spell would be level 50 so you'd need a much more powerful magus to cast it in the first place.

And it'd cost vis, too :smiling_imp:

Thus further restricting its use.

More so, if the players do this a little too much, their ennemies will do the same.
You don't play fair, we won't either :smiling_imp:

Moreso, if they want to use it on another magus, it's contrary to the code if there hasn't been a Wizard's War.
Is there anything preventing 8 magi to declare it on the same man at the same time? Anyway, if it is, they can be sure someone out there will get frightened, and they'll soon be subjects to the same tactics.

[quote="The Fixer"]
And it'd cost vis, too :twisted:

Thus further restricting its use.
[\quote]

Sodalis, I don't think so. I don't see why it would cost vis. It is "just" a level 50 spell and thus it is not ritual yet. Levelwise only level 51+ spells are automatically ritual spells or at least that is how we play it around here.

Of course there are tons of places in the books which could and should have been written more clearly, so you would not have to begin discussing (and even argue) about the rules midgame - but this is beside the point.

Point is that Wizard Communion is a very useful tool to penetrate Magic Resistance. In our two Sagas some of the Magi are still studying to learn Wizard Communions. We intend to use them to scribe some Circular Wards (our wards have to penetrate) here and there and to utilize them in getting rid of one damn annoying ghost of a Tytalus magus.

disappears back into the shadows to lurk and listen

:open_mouth:
Incredible.
Probably as a result of this phrase (Communion is a remnant of Mercurian rituals), I was sure that wizard's communion was a ritual.
That's great!!!