Yet Another Parma Magica Question

I've got a Parma question I can't figure out, and it's complicating the climax of an adventure. I'm sure it's been asked before, but it's a hard thing to search for.

Say I have a draconic creature. Can it pick up magi? If so, what happens if it flings them?

Also, what happens when said creature whips its tail around through the path of a magus?

Assume no penetration, but an incredible amount of force.

Can it pick up magi?

If it's strong enough, yes.

If so, what happens if it flings them?

Well, the magus will probably get hurt. Maybe killed, if he is droped from high and the mage can't concentrate on a ReCo spell...

Also, what happens when said creature whips its tail around through the path of a magus?

Ouch! You really want to know ?

Magic Resistance (and Parma Magica) protect against magical effects in a broad sense. A magical creature is not a magical effects (unless it was temporarily created by magic).
If a mage punch another mage, there is no MR.
If a dragon whips his tail through a magus.... ouch ! ^^

The physical attacks of the creature I don't believe have to penetrate, at least regarding Parma. If you are speaking about wards however, that is another question. The exact effects of parma and ward based protections can be astoundingly debatable however and generally come down to a judgement call.

Parma I usually assume only protects you from a direct magical force. Dragon's claws and whatnot do not count. Dragon's magical attacks, like breathing fire or whatever, does... and they have to penetrate.

Warding, if it exceeds the creatures might and whatnot in order to be effective, I usually consider to provide complete protection from the creatures abilities and not to allow direct or indirect contact/force. Warding is much better than parma if you can get it to work.

Unless, of course, the punching mage is under the effects of a longevity ritual...


I concur. No MR.

Yeah I agree. But if the mage cast a spell on himself that made his punch more powerful somehow, would the fist just bounce off or would it do normal punch damage* with the extra effects being resisted?

(*which is not to be laughed at, if you're in san diego)

Depends on how you apply Parma in your game. If using strict RAW, the aplified punch and the fist it covers would both be repelled. If using the common HR, then the mundane punch still knocks out your tooth, but the amplification is resisted so your jaw is still in one piece.

This does sound odd. It means a shapeshifter that attacks a mage can't do harm because parma would stop them and shape shift has no penetration. Mages can hunt lycanthropes freely.

This is why I disagree with the interpretation that magic on an object would stop it.

Magic items with touch range effects can smack someone over the head freely but MR would resist the touch. Magic is forcing an item to you, the magic is stopped at parma so object can't hurt you. Magic only effects the object inherently, it doesn't. I found it disturbing that Silver Scales of the knight (CrTe from HoH:S) means the mage wearing the armor can't wrestle or punch because there is magically created substance on them.

It makes the CrIm 4 effect (base 1, +2 voice, +1 diameter) able to stop people from attacking you more effectively than ReCo 10-20 or ReHe(ReTe) 25. Think about it. Level 25 ReHe to stop wood objects from touching you. You can do a CrIm 15 (base 1, +2 voice, +1 diameter, +2 group +1 more size) and suddenly 100 objects around you can't harm you in the least. Magic resistance should prevent the pink dot from being put on you but it should NOT prevent something with the dot on it from being used to hit someone else. That magical dot is not affecting the one being hit in any way so magic resistance should not apply.

This means CrIm to add a pink dot on sword is not going to cause sword to be stopped since the magic is no causing you harm or affecting you. MuTe to make a sword sharper, you are still getting hit by the sword since the force is from the attacker swinging it. At best, it would prevent the sharpness bonus from affecting you. MuCo to a wolf, parma is not going to stop the wolf from biting you. (it would stop you from getting changed to wolf).

Parma is very powerful, it is very effective but I think there needs to be stricter definitions on it. It is a revolutionary defense: it means gifts of other mages won't affect you so cooperation can occur. It means you have protection from most magical effects, it should not be the end all/be all.

Many people, including myself, rule that shapechanging via Lycanthropy, Skinchanger, and Shapeshifter require no Penetration. What is the effect level? What about Casting Total? This HR is often separate from any considerations about how Parma is otherwise applied.

On the other hand, magi should hunt Lycanthropes freely. Someone needs to put an end to their menace.

Freely as in facing no risk or threat since their parma wards off all attacks.

As a threat, they are a mild annoyance to most mages. Most fully armored shield grogs can hold them off long enough for the mage to kill them. The interesting stories come when you need to save someone from the curse and spread of the curse.

No no! The interesting story is when you are a lone magus fighting against the seven silver werewolves of the scarlet sorceror!!
I should totally write for comic books :laughing:
I don't like letting grogs do my fighting for me. I fight alongside them and cover them with Parma. Which leads us right back to the main question I suppose :slight_smile:

It is worth noting that since CrIm spells doesn't actually affect a person, but rather the species he emits, they are actually one of the few cases where the CHR (Common HouseRule). and RAW agrees....

However, this does lead to an intresting problem - Magi cannot see an illusion unless that illusion penetrates the MR... This does seem to apply to both RAW and the CHR.

Not so sure about that one. Nowhere near my books, but I cast doubts.

Check the last four bullets on magic resistance page 86. A magus can see a CrIm illusion.

This one was clarified in HoH:MC. Heartbeasts, lycanthropes, and shapeshifters only have a magical effect at the point of change, but there is no lasting magical effect beyond that. Thus their claws are not considered magical constructs, and are not stopped by MR; nor does remaining in heartbeast form for several years incur warping.

However, those who use spells to change form an Skinchangers (because they use an enchanted object) are under a magical effect continuously, so MR (and potentially warping) does become a problem.


Skin changer and MuCo cause warping, Heartbeast doesn't. What about shapeshifter? Does that cause warping?

Skinchanger does not cause warping. MuCo does not cause warping either unless you use it for ridiculously extended periods of time.


HoH:Societates gives also some further explanations about illusions and magic resistance.