T:Group works for a group of people when the form is Corpus. T:Group for this spell is the spikes created, not whomever is on the receiving end of the spell.
IF you want a spell that targets grouped people and gives Eve time to run away, I suggest a T:Group version of Rise of the Feathery Body changing the Duration to Diameter, giving two minutes to get away, and also they get dropped when the spell expires. If the group is valid, then it takes effect. IF she doesn't want to injure them, she raises them a few inches off the ground so that they can't run afterwards, and when the spell expires, they drop a few inches and avoid serious injury (+0 damage, maybe)
I did look at Stockade of Infernos. It's pretty reasonable, since it creates 6 walls of fire, the configuration may require a Finesse roll for placement, and may require a finesse roll if it is going across a creature's location. I'm really not sure why the finesse roll for the creature is the case, unless it means placing a wall in some odd angle, unrelated to the rest of them, or because the author thought being able to hit multiple targets with this spell was a bit over the top. One could ask him, Erik Tyrell is a frequent poster here on the forum, and did a lot of work on Ranulf after Magi of Hermes. Erik's methods also sometime generate frequent criticism from others, as can be seen in his Ranulf thread, and to some degree his Hermetic Astrology character he's doing in the same style as Magi of Hermes.
This whole issue is creating a quagmire of aimed and non-aimed spells and situational determination of when aiming is necessary and when it isn't
Lamech did you take a look at Earth's Carbuncle? Isn't that the essential spell and effect you're trying to achieve with this? If it's not, let me know.
Not really. Its a damaging Terram spell, but other than that its not at all similar. I want a spell that inflicts damage to a group of people. (Or ten close together members of that group). That spell inflicts damage to a circular area. Nor do I want the spell to be tied to the ground. Against fliers, or someone on a castle or in a tree, Earth's Carbuncle won't work.
Think about this as a group of crossbowmen unleashing a volley on another group. Except since its a un-aimed spell it always strikes. Earth's Carbuncle is more like a grenade.
The mechanics for such a spell are a bit tricky in Ars then.
Creating 10 spears, is Target group, the Group being the Spear and not the people you want to hit. Moving the same 10 spears is a Requisite of Rego and an extra Magnitude. If the spears are being launched at 10 different targets, that's where you have a problem. Ordinarily it wouldn't need to be aimed, The Crystal Dart for example isn't aimed, which is a similar spell. But 10 different victims? That might be more than can be accomplished with accuracy. IMO 10 different, but specific targets (so no explosion or grenade effects), is better handled by multi-casting. At the very least, hitting multiple specific targets would certainly be a special effect and require additional magnitudes.
I don't think you can accomplish what you're talking about with this spell. Take the same spell and have it blast 10 spears outwards or in a defined spray, and I would say go for it. Earth's Carbuncle and Ard of Fiery Ribbons are two spells that do something similar. MR isn't really the issue in this, but just to make sure it's stated: these spears wouldn't touch a target with MR if it couldn't penetrate as they are a magically created medium. If they were ten spears launched with Rego, then they could touch the targets but without force and do no damage.
Okay I have a question suppose Earth's Carbuncle is fired at a group of grogs engaged in combat with a group of zombies? Assuming good accuracy with placement how many grogs can be caught in the 1-pace circle? If you hit as many grogs as possible will you catch any zombies in the AoE when you attack? In combat there are no rules for placement of individuals or individuals within their group. The rules don't differentiate between the grogs surrounding the zombies and attacking from all sides, and the opposite. You can sort of get that by descriptions, but what if people want to do conflicting things?
Point is, just saying "ten people close together" get hit is something that Ars can handle mechanically. With an area of effect you're just gonna be pulling numbers out of your hat. I would prefer when possible to go with the ten hits instead of a guess.
And no calling for a finesse roll won't really help matters. If the grogs have gotten mixed in with the zombies it might be you can hit all grogs, but it will also hit four zombies. Or if there are nice battle lines you might be able to only get three grogs, but also need to get one zombie.
If everyone really wants to go that route, instead we can, but I think that individual targets would be easier. I don't see why we just can't do it as "ten people close together". Also side note: Having them all hit the same person and all roll for damage would be a terrible way to resolve it.
If it's a densely packed melee I would treat it like a bomb going off; some would be affected, but some might be lucky enough not to. There really isn't an existing mechanic, but in that situation no one is safe; all could potentially be affected. But since there's so many, some might be affected and others weren't. Without inventing a new rule, you could roll damage seperately for each one; some would be minorly hurt and some might be killed outright. Or you could say this will affect a total of 8 bodies, and then randomly pick 8 of the combatants to be affected. But in this case it's all luck, the magus is not picking who is hit.
The real problem is you can't hit a group in Ars, but only hit certain people out of the group. It's either a bomb or it's a single spell multiple times. Or...the targets are different somehow. A group of men fighting animals, that would be easy to hit just the men or just the animals, the Form would make it absolutely safe for one or the other. Or if one had MR and the other didn't, just cast it forcelessly and the group with MR is safe. If the target is a group it affects usually the first 10. If it's Room, it's everyone in the room. Hermetic Magic is not specific enough.
Now...there is an oppurtunity here. New Targets could be made, or new Masterys to allow for this specific targetting. But the current issue is just one of the many quirks of Hermetic magic.
That only works when its disorganized AND clustered tightly. If the group of grogs got surrounded by zombies shouldn't the magus place it in the center of the grogs and hit all the grogs before we even worry about the zombies? And if their are battle lines the magus should be able to place it on the grogs side and get more grogs than zombies. And if the fighting has gotten spread out the maga might have trouble catching more than a couple people in the blast.
This is why I'm not a fan of making it area of effect. You said it yourself "There really isn't an existing mechanic". I want to have a spell that can hit, multiple people, but not need a multi-post question-response about where everyone is positioned in battle when I want to cast it. I think that using the pre-existing group mechanics would be best. This spell can be targeted at a an enemy group or a few clustered groups and that many hits get dealt out. (Max one per person, order now!)
That's definitely not the case. There is the spell that lays down multiple walls of fire. Neither a bomb nor multiple spells.
Since you're bringing up grogs and zombies...I hate to assume, who is the desired target(s) in this mess? Who are you trying to hit and who are you not trying to hit?
You need to invent a spell that uses the existing mechanics; acknowledge the quirks of Target and Form in the spell. What you're asking for is tricky, you need to make a clever but legal work around for it. That might ultimately require the creation (Breakthrough) of new Targets or new Masterys that allow for it. Or somehow distinguish your grogs from other people or zombies in a group.
That's not a great example. As has been pointed out, that spell and that effect in particular is disputed. Not saying it's not an example, but it does cause problems. If your entire point rests on that example, it's not necessarily going to sway the argument.
Ether you roll randomly or use a more detailed locato. System (can be aimply lead and plawti rigures on your table) to determine location. Perbthe RAW thre is no explicit way to.solve this. You couod say that a combat group foloows the guide of "people together" if you jeed one. If no defenders/group are bwing used, people is not close together. One meter radius is not big if combatants are moving around, so I would it affect few combatants.
I'm comfortable with chucking 10 spears toward some defined area where the intended recipients are. There may or may not be friendly units in the intended area. I'm fine with rolling some random chance to see who gets hit, which means some people get hit and some people don't, and it is possible that not all spears hit. Unfortunately there isn't a mechanic for this, I skimmed Lords of Men, too, hoping to see something there, but nothing jumped out. And while the Earth's Carbuncle isn't a desired spell because of fliers, I'm not sure Tommy's Gone is a good spell to affect fliers. On average, Eve can expect to get ~10 penetration on that spell, based on her CS, Penetration and average die roll of 6. That means Might 9 creatures and below. Sure, you can plan on averages, but I generally plan for the worst, such as rolling twos in combat, and then get my desired CS above that, depending on how much penetration I desire.
It is conceivable that Eve isn't a combat magus at all, and might have only one offensive spell. If so, I would suggest giving up the combat spells and focusing on something else. And if she wants a bread and butter combat spell, The Crystal Dart isn't bad, and does the same amount of damage on a individual basis. Eve has an average penetration, even with Muto of ~14. +10 damage isn't anything to shake a stick at, at such a low level, and with the potential to increase penetration as the muto score increases. Oh, and let me point out, that taking The Crystal Dart provides 20 xp, which, if put into Muto givers here a Muto score of 5 (with 5 xp for other stuff, maybe a mastery), and makes the Penetration total of 19, on average. That will get the attention of a lot of magical creatures.
I was thinking more birds with fliers. On crystal dart, there wouldn't be any reason to bother with Muto. Eve can create crystal (glass), that does how ever give me a good reason to rework that invisible ballista spell into this spell:
Crystal Ballista -CrTe (re)-15
Requiste: Rego
R: Sight T: Ind D: Mom
Conjures a crystal dart from nothing and speeds off like an arrow at a target that is within Sight range. It does +10 damage, and always hits its target, although it must penetrate Magic Resistance to have any real effect. This spell strikes accurately every time and can be resisted.
Base 3+3 sight+1 rego requisite.
Basically crystal dart, except a better range and it makes something from nothing instead of transmuting it. And eve will have 20ish penetration with it.
Anyway, with two votes fairly solidly against, I'll change Tommy's Gone into Thomas's Crystal Rain. Same thing as the crystal rain from hermetic projects except it is creo based. This means it can be resisted and doesn't need any of those pesky aiming rolls. Nor does it need ammo, or require clean up. That'll free up 10 xp for mastery. 5 into each of two attack spells. Not sure which two...
Should the soak roll for your modified Crystal Rain include a bonus due to having the shield or armor as it does in HP, though? You're taking an aimed spell and trying to make it a direct damage spell. Doesn't exactly work simply.
Its only cosmetically similar. Creo spells are fully capable of dealing damage without any finesse roll. So a shield wouldn't really help since it only adds to the defense roll. (At least per hermetic projects). Armor would help though. It adds to soak. Okay, actually both for the original spell and this version I would argue a big shield and a quickness roll (say 9) would protect you from the worst of it.
Also added in the vis spending for the casting of the invoke the spirit of (form) spells.
Alright then a full write up of Thomas's Crystal Rain:
Thomas's Crystal Rain-CrTe-25
Range: Sight Duration: Mon, Target: Group
Creates a cloud of glass shards that immediately fall to the ground. They vanish almost immediately, but not before inflicting serious wounds on any unlucky enough to be caught in the rain of glass. The glass inflicts +10 damage, and any damaged leave blood on the ground. The rain is ten paces across. A quickness stress roll of 9 can reduce the damage to +0 if there is something to hide under, such as darting into a door or a heater shield. (Smaller shields generally aren't enough). Finally, the spell needs a few paces to fall to inflict full damage as it uses gravity for its motion, and it can be resisted.
Base 3+3 sight +2 group +1 size
Spells updated. Mastery for Rend the Earth, and Crystal Ballista. Casting tools updated. And I have a sigil! Now to get to some NPCs in her past, and relationships therefore...
Crystal Rain works better, but I'd leave out the saving throw option, not that you're wrong for putting it in or that it's unreasonable, it's usually more of the GM's prerogative to handle that. Jebrick might use that guideline or come up with something else.
A quick thing that you might do as well, is come up with a spell that doesn't require you to create the rock; a simple levitation of a rock and dropping it. Unresistable, but does require both a rock and a Finesse roll. You can get a rock that's big enough to do damage, but small enough not to have collateral damage (though a bad finesse roll could still cause it). Since you still have Weak Spontaneous magic that might be a good idea; you wouldn't be able to use it as a fall back option most likely if the target has good MR.
Or make an item that does the same, then you get the certainly of a magic item activating, plus all of the options they provide. Or make use of the Mystery that allows you to enchant your focus. That is a great way to seriously bump a combat spell.
If your target is engaged with another you will hit both.